Apollo Commercial Real Estate Finance (ARI) 9 Feb 232022 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Good day and welcome to the Q4 2022, Apollo Commercial Real Estate Finance, Inc.'s Earnings Conference Call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions]. I would like to remind everyone that today's call and webcast are being recorded. are of they Estate Commercial that Inc. Finance, note the Apollo property Real Please unauthorized any broadcast prohibited. any that and in form strictly is Information of our replay about is the in available this earnings call release. press audio

to for like to in we call SEC ask projections, with factors disclosure and release Safe press may our include could filings cause also to forward-looking the the projections. call I'd our Today's statements. and refer most customary that forward-looking recent that regarding results from important webcast you Harbor attention differ to conference these and your statements and statements actual materially

reconciled In will our earnings GAAP which we to on are figures is non-GAAP measures presentation, relevant stockholders the available website. this are call, assessing our the addition, performance. section to discussing management financial of believes be in which Company's in certain measures These

our required visit call projections, XXX-XXX-XXXX. not To obtain do statements forward-looking us We or of SEC any our undertake by www.apollocref.com or law. update website at to latest filings, unless at obligation copies our please

over At call to ahead. I'd the Company's Stuart like Please turn the Executive go this Rothstein. Chief time, Officer, to

Apollo operator fourth joining thank of and Thank us good Estate quarter Real you those on to and you, XXXX morning, earnings the Commercial Finance us call.

Scott XXXX of growth dividend. in floating results stock ARI's rate I’m by Officer and loans Chief credit performance strong a Officer. evidenced by our operating and joined Anastasia today common Financial substantial Investment portfolio Weiner, consistent Mironova, our well-covered The Chief as produced earnings of

at billion loans over the originated to grew year-end. $X.X team billion of and Our $X.X portfolio

mortgage ARI's misperception, position. portfolio Notably, now consist XX% lingering of of despite first some

steps newly facilities. capital it the with milestones assets also term several several expanding were focused originations strengthen on balance Proactive financing to risk to sheet, freeing and and into our underwritten achieved and ARI's underperforming sources Beyond loans returns. attractive diversifying extending generate to taken adjusted ARI respect redeploying originated significant

to continue earnings these company's effort, of As the model. result demonstrate ARI business power in the a of resilience

headwinds with both rate from a an begins face over rates continuing increases interest to economic potential recession. Fed elevated XXXX and the for and real concern estate markets additional

While for assets. well rising and in-place volume the to positive reconcile is the a in a Sellers continue short-term, rates as historically, of value to transaction as on leading slowed. buyers result, been inflation real repricing their lenders has a estate, has and as views

dividend, measured ARI, earnings generating portfolio given ARI's for continue to loans and over robust to remains of past deployment. Importantly the in approach of two distributable level opportunistic with capital a originated while well-positioned taking common stock respect excess the the years, new

platform benefit billion As year. always, broader originated real of ARI is $XX fortunate estate commercial loan debt transactions which Apollo's to last from over

active, access information market originating we of the and and enables company's use the marketplace remains assess closing data in Apollo real-time ARI to the capital. transactions which investable as

properties While ARI's across loan and transaction billion and be past achieved plans. refinanced assets varying the In business as velocity year. has ARI's over evidenced $X.X instances, portfolio in as refinanced slowed, the to geographies. were the repayments received repayments market remains of types open most property were by for they

ARI also were pay points sources partial down. provide capital or put a work and to to full in situations there However, yields in attractive financing which were order willing and to capital and of the other attachment beneficiary was

just and on XXXX a buildings XXXX. of Office a by a or the Chicago. partially from loan current decreased London in full of further an loan building portfolio. of repay Notably, office end repayment million exposure ARI approximately as partial office was office of nearly exposure several as the reduced after repayment of quarter received That end, ARI had on off to And secured during totaling year-end, loans of $XXX XX% fully XX% either high at had

recognize and seen What capital institutional patience In and we properties value sponsors and have business to importance instances, support to with subordinate underlying markets and capitalized the until achieved plans borrowers properties in well with long-term lenders. is are many high-quality repayments respect working have the of both inherent the their normalized.

at had underlying near freed $X.X Miami neighborhood, million portfolio sponsorship of the group, XX loan with to year-end significant in District experience Design which Shifting totaling sold we capital. $XXX approximately ARI up the end, loans a quarter properties the billion, ARI's to

financing. been in seller part DC. at ARI positive XX% performance As to transaction of also Washington operating loan ARI's the provided There Hotel cost has

flow still approaching are we and rapidly in levels. the performance While selling is considering hotel cash pre-pandemic XXXX positive produced the asset,

the the of are believe strength Apollo's the however, on focused past asset to this achieved remains addition Work positive we of year, assets, the in focus capabilities, highlights and management capital. preservation to the with other outcomes we extremely commitment pleased ongoing which

capital due to consider Turning ahead look in credit of convertible notes if being to coming the balance maturity progresses will to times to the repay the right-side ARI's existing prepared the monitor notes, ARI as using during is to year. the and year quarter XXXX, at transaction needed. fourth repay the of the markets its a all XXXX notes market the as the we of liquidity closely notes capital the while Similar that convertible also matured corporate $XXX million sheet only

ARI rate loans. approximately earned per value, at earnings predominantly is consisting of book call coming to rate which portfolio the run quarter highlighting in worth Anastasia, stockholders trading share, annualized a quarterly yield, per $X.XX common is XX% paying while a that $X.XX supported senior current roughly XX% dividend by a the ARI share with Before XX% of I is over it turn company off of floating

the turn results financial to the call will review I for ARI's Anastasia quarter. that, over to With

morning, everyone. Stuart, and you, good Thank

impairment net stock. strong financial per was or of $X.XX realized share. common investment produced available prices ARI to earnings distributable in QX. stockholders X $X.XX results million XX.X share of per million GAAP With loss losses and diluted was common in

all rates, European points floating and loans of and would income. in interest the [floors] respective floating increase additional as their net per XX% to of And interest interest our rising our loans quarter U.S. rate. for rate excess floating increase approximately well-positioned of global were of lead share remains basis benchmark portfolio An XX $X.XX are ARI's end, rate [ph]. in as

Portfolio focused list assets, quarter Design immediately Miami credit resolution this by assets during to which also seller the of redeployed additions the focus strong, a of asset of portion loan into the the mentioned of as remains non-performing of largest was freed with financing. resolution capital, and Stuart. The no one the up District

in rated four was portfolio of portfolio XX, December of to outstanding, the X As was less risk the principle X% risk weighted five. rated of in the ARI's based than loan average loans

was amortized in there CECL The to economy, XX with strengthening. quarter, the respect partially XX. the basis macro of is December the the of offset impact of by to During portfolio to is the it million, outlook allowance bringing an loan attributable a conservative as cost points increase portfolios increase general were more X.X basis

typically fair forecast using The allowance are to individually specific current Also, secured accordance loans during the the the is quarter, determined the located flow CECL in residential the by for CECL value underlying ARI the with underlying specific for recorded the that loan. XXth project mezzanine collateral increase XX.X loan the ARI at collateral sale assessed allowance the In Street. would of value compare cash the of methodology, model. the value West million of XXX with

recent into comprise to driven sales, and which instance market future expected factors, costs in of unit timing remain cash value In complete West a including Street, traffic as they pricing and of indicated Capital closings, the carry the and expected by the XXX foot model the net and assumptions to overall around borrowings. outflows based of by number proceeds take are XXth sales upon project cost inflows out inquiry. price sales activity, broker activities, current can and interest, including

the expected the XX discounting purposes, accounting price value In and the that then analysis, shows of NPV net model nominal flow flow the most NPV of NPV value loans. fully of million carrying or basis projected For cash net to [freeing] ARI's reserves. ARI's the funded forecast outstanding current present exceeds we [ph] cash recent still our the compare calculate

However, view reserves. timing the XX.X sales given NPV basis and on with on the net an more conservative additional proceeds, million

realized noting In upon to the the reversed be extent over discounted proceeds. by is based taken will that flow cash time. current reserves is nominal ARI's incremental basis to covered the prove It our be forecast worth and analysis

to to discounted continue provide future be project updates will on view NPV CECL value, future. adjustments specific in as which We reserve and asset the there may result nominal further the in in the the may potentially the of differences

of future senior senior year-end the noting be of is XX loan XXX point, XXXX, basis loan since from are XXX pro the proceeds the the fully It balance unit the the on Capital principal And proceeds loan balance will until of have reduced mezz-B units in Steinway senior rata of that million. refinancing From the ARI's the used sale pay from as of down both to million. worth sales a loan was of repaid. this net by and August structure the

of further in two ARI's the months. this Currently, will the mezzanine historical approximately units senior penthouse decrease are few tower there expected sale the of close loan and B million. three Steinway to XX from units by outstanding balance in Proceeds the principal the one-unit and building within loan next

write-off the recorded year loss with a the Design With events, in realized respect loan for quarter realized to a allowances. value and book Georgia. connection Miami fourth impact realized secured loan no the was represented as the by to loss There ARI District the property during hotel Atlanta, previous the XX.X in million of the

the the in of value realize reserves increase and current realized the at multifamily acquisition excluding last due consideration. the loan, the of over year tax dividend. to we additional earnings of development $XX.XX to value end, taken was realized benefited known losses and common book stock from Brook. With quarter certain year. on company's Despite the CECL the share, the respect the structure an in X% in reserves as ARI's Atlanta during to Brooklyn gain And XXXX the loss opted depreciation general in Book excess in quarter per the

is previous in ARI's quarter relationship. to facilities, cash all capacity unencumbered liquidity. We're and combination continue X at year-end $XXX assets. loan was in and diversify compliance with the with total end expand ARI X.X. to at to institutions liquidity, which strong currently a undrawn on further credit and quarter compared the of with ARI's several ended our discussions remained and respect million borrowings, existing to maintain of financial ARI ratio covenants constant With debt-to-equity borrowing billion of

with open Operator, for the please questions. go that, we line ahead. like And would to

JMP Instructions]. Thank come DeLaney first you. line with from Securities. Steven Today's of will question the [Operator

Your is line open.

a or any that nice were XXXX that Thanks. quarter to with resolutions expect comment on possibly shouldn't realized one-time fees Thank the included for $X.XX of the that the anything close as Good quarter. if over items possibly as were strong and before it's terms in us quantify increase in morning, nice congratulations Starting we $X.XX significant first you. everyone. there year? you EPS. see of distributable far in Can again $X.XX losses, this EPS, to and the prior the prepayment And

simple to also putting obviously the that Yes, Steve, answer really not rates, has benefit rising it's of the then earning [indiscernible] no, work a interest return. capital been is but

Yes.

invested, So tailwind. more a more and lot you've capital got

kind So Or in that's XXXX and XX% how okay. guess portfolio, in loan net another Well, grow? for of just X.X. given $X.XX portfolio? two XXXX your it the down to expect should and looks I Or But possibly position? could Stuart, we flat it, up. liquidity reinvest think Thanks. about growth step were a Do about grew, added you time. we perhaps you

I to have want be I more think we selective think that a don't point And and as in lot a we keep us that paying dividend. miss the thoughtful do And to there's deploying about allows it order think of about the to not ways. couple capital. I somewhat to

our capital, last It's a expect on a just very We sizing But business in I in the was portfolio portfolio also, mortgages originations first but get we've as going of portfolio misappreciated healthy portfolio year. levered leads for excess I think keeping larger growth. to, from somewhat and of we the I continue to as I opening increase alluded probably half back from it's year, redeploy portfolio inside obviously, remarks, paid and liquidity during but But of science. overall some last things to up mezz unlevered just year what working. modestly of just transferred. size. naturally that vis-à-vis all some the mezz took to mortgage we've and got into perspective, obviously inexact loans open place are all think think certainly capital my an about first the first the versus Not sort

color. Appreciate Thanks for the it.

moment Stephen come Thank will Raymond our you. the with that And for of Laws next One from line question. James.

Your line is open.

to get peers guys Europe breakout on XX% you cons what maybe most seeing U.K. your as it's and as and is you're some focus hear those of or Can [ph]. about your looking of I'd far Europe love half kind maybe more exposure pros than about, that [deck] office as about you of of comments, your over is and talked retail as U.K. your much being at about there we exposures? exposure, don't talk your

specific vis-à-vis months think assets, Europe, which ratings certainly performing level, our what none activity in start at an et we've Look about the that notable portfolio done or let a high around of should Yes. that XX as is from indication be right taking allowances, saying has we XX well. you over last perspective, believe cetera me moving to the been by

we've And think loans for term with a it's side, situations I found then, at asset two-fold. comfortable and really renovation where And today. we've longer against some in provided done other sub-debt point envisioned We've out. of We feel are future credit at was and Europe on redevelopment things had the guess as and we've being the office call renovation, high been had there subordinate achieved, but strategy that well. existing paid capital plan performed our been that situations lease perfectly some was assets level, are other in it, quite type of that to where obviously lending. a us sought or off that. And because traditional business bridge we've the

gone general, the guess respect Europe space. I office. People starts in usage level the the hasn't Europe fits and that People that through back people are seen office of U.S. the Europe. office on high in office the commentary in is to to office getting using we've in to back with are in

the vis-à-vis little Europe You the tied concentrated, U.S. to I i.e., in recession, say concerns would are the to have similar most concerns over a Europe in for bit it's part, though, prices. recession, more not concerns energy

the the on cities stuck portfolio. quite say performance in side major would Europe, I So office pleased been have and we've generally to with the of

outlet recession say that in the our Both done and retail think been side we also more And to point things, resilient attractive has in from box a Europe center proven then, be would were of strategy Europe. I in say the performance On strike retail, their call given it a good, tenants terms to that debt we've has retail of basis, concepts have the bigger performance much I'd given pretty non-traditional we've done on more concept. which at the terms it's goods. selling yield I some perspective. been which able price are historically

shifts comfortable high as portfolio it, do at or cap no in any and But in generally we of calls, A, level. your level. and is given in portfolio, sure perspective, also me a rate think you terms of but back economics our percentage, and sizing versus then currency the interest the we I'm envision from bit being about say and pick if look then of levels to at a U.S. Europe differentials. of deals basis, overall debt terms to the as Europe's hedging in longer that it our rate very when bigger impacts prior feel heard of where we not rates It economically as at loan up advantageous So rent a Europe happy speaking, you've selective Europe, in more because gotten with today. little with yield on

the right feel And or about that still We available say to that ready perspective, in the market be capital U.S. to deals deals portfolio. good the also for sold overall. similar a liquidity But refinancing. plenty I'd are from of for are slowdown

for want question, Steve's those up follow-up initial comments, I My are to follow on Great, those helpful. thanks question. Stuart,

you term term much how on basis? moving? threes? table at kind basis. the of depend to forward? a you you senior high do on leverage move I a mid or you peers, loans. of guys gets an medium kind that threes mix most all it the You entirely little below as where when does X.X it be as think total mid And kind of but Maybe a not it's leverage senior does transitioned the portfolio look envision, loan look medium a on portfolio, Do in Or your leverage financing kind versus near-term, have think of seem almost to on is And to how

Yes.

gets ahead I to basis. speaking of of three specific it tick roughly an a three, sort asset think maybe on

If corporate to million of you notes an think the about right. loan portfolio, eliminated $XXX leverage We with first convertible respect all year. last

reasonable certainly to leverage, was the maturing to fourth the corporate way notes of million unless attractively year quarter there $XXX in at corporate it's a replace think of and I leverage expect. this convertible point. eliminate with We'll some that

XX% run I And towards as project might you you times if X.X of our mid of was to bucket, times, think of financing, think makes now, threes, the rate. about I maybe leverage. call corporate the or some it's X.X which but most think point, out, attractive to at if move, borrowings level X it you repo sense XX% X, call there sort it advance for we

Yes. Great. Thanks, Stuart.

for of Will next Jade Rahmani our come question. Thank line with the One KBW. moment from you.

open. is line Your

Thank you very much.

me? Regarding the credit, can hear you

Hear Yep. fine. you

you. Thank Okay.

deterioration spent you've CECL some any ones credit elsewhere, some if outlook. on I there's risk could loans moved in specific reserves, further been speak the just to you're to assets, rated focus performance would And from credit the away talk related you four. noticed make about, time can also you outlook, that, the expecting comment you're disclosure. what which Regarding expecting? broader Maybe which list Maybe if comments two and any just on the about talking on

at level. decide concern, it worried I Look truly about I'd doesn't a want high reflect was accounting reflect let something me would perspective, now. to an say when I accounting Yes. guess I need to my if from today, I

interpret sleep think indicative what perspective losing truly and would we've I our should a done So as I rating you from we're of today. what -- over disclosure

the they view changed what they the gotten think over we've credit I like them? to headed. I as would we say, execute are in trying else the around think gotten of, if I describe we've that, is more exchange are be assets the their discussions figure business things out at a get than high where paid lot off. think to there very we, lot that off some say, last functioning ultimately a done is pay productive need economy I think for to And still happy time don't generally I managed two our recognize don't of we're to market, on partial quarter have would level, to et a more other think through everybody work I plans, has free. paid focus for extent speaking, the cetera. extensions downs, some or on that But I would time people

in previously building at made we've addressed Design You an sense. Obviously, heard me resolving there's office Miami this warning point. District beyond lights no what than obvious other But reference London.

because any XXX non-accrual around non-accrual they other there's million. that there's loans loans, million, then I question. reserves of Technical West XXX get XXX specific to loans. when add CECL XXX, The Cincinnati, to total is And up this it are million million Atlanta XX, XXX Thanks. are there Okay.

be But I loans there other in XX. in pieces the that think bucket? are probably non-accrual should it's there included any West XXX, of

Ohio Jade. and Center, of the XX, Atlanta. That's It's asset it, West XXX, which No. Liberty pieces is

Thanks for that.

and would we're I So improving September and at feeling are office. a deals a suspect bricks been through performance Chicago has disclosure you few How some about mortar retail include maturities. that going retail in Just Cincinnati you Not maturity. one upcoming others. looking the given uptick about there loan provide the of the has sure those? the

Yes.

definitely help look, Center, density as adding I of because we performing while right, we Liberty or on Occupancy edges a Center remain. think on economics better. I maturity, what Liberty the that well. will it's vis-à-vis There's up. few sell multifamily some a are end But as is right, levels are at the Liberty think Center beneficiary greater potentially things some vis-à-vis the point effectively asset, game the hotel

later would but environment, asset next available say, But in what to getting early better year, of on financing direction. right close somewhat sale for sense. perhaps I a and be is I this interest think moving dependent would performing the the also asset year, it's make where definitely rate could a purchaser the point

basis some dialogue on sitting I based that relevant here or and incremental a conceptual think I activity get repayment comfortable today, level borrowers/sponsors, a I something situations, of speaking, the repayment Chicago remaining in will us partial you around path that we're to those mentioned, full there with sort say other be transaction be referenced. discussion say, you included to the on allows would the towards of where obviously, a time would in generally that seems assets office reasonable the that some our repayment partial to for

commenting on for that. Thanks Okay.

Hagen BTIG. with for Thank question. of Eric our Line you. next One moment

Your line open. is

are the reserving up, just Hey, And a thanks. strong and reserving morning. a in bit up would is where scenarios reserving there you connection maybe credit. the impacts CMBS? say the there it could are Financing following little in? that Market? dislocated? maybe of Maybe How of the with how Like, that between on amount markets doing? more And conditions macro of capital Good hold you're the more more generally? amount okay, the markets

level CMBS credit say specific at about of there's making general. without it market, a in the real environment the plenty think I I in estate guess, and I'd high liquidity

Yes.

extension of counterparties, way I you The opportunities have. the other then historically, a there. that I the been how here. might mean, splitting recapitalization two which tougher opportunity questions I be or that take not case those separate going there a be the think mean, for of much or otherwise as then, I And result it's typical, can environment others there question any on to to splitting Like, that a lender is does friction power available forward? appetite how Okay. nice with a from company in in opportunity have Thank loans? more negotiating a loans as loan, that to modification? offer to split of impact will going to mean, loans split you. a Is second, be loans?

I a to creditor Yes. vis-à-vis more of para some guess away from loans. capital. creating has migrated what, And talking or para clear I'd of sharing internal interests. high agreement in instance, structures, terms actually Apollo generally, piece dialogue. work not It's where of the we And with divergence say about you're and senior right as or parties pursue our at Historically, extent a level, generally in have situation. the a splitting At of pursue is we're or obviously, other high other junior lot pretty a level. the pressure affiliated of a of loans you splitting done and ARI any senior, senior, opinion, Junior who's sharing junior splitting through

pursue financial one and amongst a a para everybody. getting say result, and for pretty concerned. sharing to overly was not to three a And us something where that consensual And point that works for large non-affiliated point you worked particular held several I to mind, situation again, interests. a as constructive loan comes a everybody And to today, So get that parties, need there's and which all institutions. would of given

you leaves again, and for appreciate concerned the XX to things. So the up And, radar know, has that about doing us this years nothing ability screen now resolve on I question. that come our overly

helpful. Thank That's very you, guys, much. Yes.

Thank question. next Rick you. our that JPMorgan. And with for from the One line moment Shane will of come

line is open. Your

we frankly, their to question. Hey, But spreads credit. of observation offsetting so borrowers, of impact ways, that, And spread important some Delaney the some about the when wider some far my Steve you made for free, for extent, thanks as are relatively in that's we higher an on you are everybody, terms how your that, taking rates because think caps in of impact of about think income. been an now. will borrowers work loans some environment how from expiring, risk caps mitigate into those rate enjoyed wondering them they've that I'm and to loans. extending, where are with start the to move and

Rick. Look, no cap cover the short the term purchase without is, a extensions a the question, to of answer are there remaining Good of rate loan.

you which an beyond increased for loan challenge downs in think is rebalancing fashion. where in certainly I to consensual of highlight the would days, certain I is in these exchange heard potentially refer issue, a owners/borrowers cost for pay say important The loan. another of caps balance instances you've a extensions me

infer our a not from caps times, borrower, comments say do capital original piece that down piece And actually original can necessary our as from from senior might but to come should that's mezzanine the preferred pay willing my you am it You might downs, to to take I or that when position. between that, at a and borrower assume come in I also referring of additional both the principle pay and capital necessary. purchase the

Got it.

we're $XXX the Okay. versus look might give have caps, you for us again, what helpful. in can a would years remember, cost million it That's context not it and that. what cap And a shopping what on, ago, cost some have market transaction notional, caught to would three take might what like

millions exact dollars today. numbers, I of, versus hundreds of ballpark would dollars say but of XXXXs Not

Thank helpful. Okay. guys. you, That's

have next for question from And question. moment follow do One Rahmani we Jade with up you. Thank our a KBW.

Your line is open.

Thank you very much.

dividend be strong items? No, shouldn't it earnings the concerned or issue. seems distributable overly and today, stock really ex-credit not the around X% the not overly That's With coverage. the down concerned markets about

still two However, loan book further reserve was assume the did XXX, to half XX. issue percent. there is would a a market major about. And decline the value on seems That I that and by concerned be West around

and So The dollar the can a, opening the that you the there. senior very about initial you just remind position But both made methodology million. comments position, us large, I junior XXX of basis? what's the last north they're mezzanine some know in mezzanine,

the which basis b get million, last the approach ignoring XX.X been on written you junior has know, down dollar to the about way coverage position, So position? to what's what's confidence and a now think or that to mezzanine the with

on loan You're I'm Jade, the talking senior – about senior a mezz just position. the and

junior million. position the XXX On mezz is

reserves the I that chance quite be also those basis also be of good there mezzanine would last on XX.X that's or that or million. square think foot for junior million, dollar So what could it would that but reserves, there's the B the three XXX.X some large, seem price the the position about. position junior faces metric of some per A you mean, a mezzanine

of in partner to mean think $XXX the the senior from loan basis, you're you're the of those look financial a place of pieces in sort net what's at it about we way and units the think the million mezz if about paid a to with the remaining about two talking about I date position, million taken value talking $XXX talking of off. you're if already, perspective, loan you have that fact institution, we get actually senior about you our fully Jade, senior eyes another

range are the units of in And Okay. many or-- remaining there how something XX like

less than Little XX.

they're going for apiece. million around And Okay. XX

you. have right into, of units find what you can you of I we'll move for your you the family me unit million, mean, XX million, can units and tell XX just and might of have

that do But is million. qualify you just think? mean, average, actually XX I what basis, that to on

et are sellout I say $XXX this million inside of basis, cetera. loan it net would XX% at put way, on selling you value, including costs, to a Let's

Okay.

XXX to So your how junior loans, other suggesting mezzanine? senior there's the the million, like that's much seems position the there senior that it So plus you're is risk right?

mortgage, is which senior mortgage, full whole It's our mortgage. plus right? It's position. the our senior Like mezz the shared

loan Okay. is The rise plus XXX a mezzanine senior and other senior loans? the partner senior position

Yes.

be So it B positions. that junior are two to suggesting you risk total collectively and those would those A XXX.X is mean, the fair positions, I then million. in the haircut mezzanine

From get assets nominal a certain sold, basis, the units still if any assume changed about Anastasia allowance explain which there think the future, situation based The cavalier are of accounting units be pacing, I then is nominal what actually recover now, requires units pricing. that to analysis, for, don't way nominal receive a based will actually allowance incremental think you to some we have a and I trying could a just covered. everything or but sell view on not see not world sold you and where we DCF basis, to an want perspective, you'll what this. even the in sold you on was is when haircuts on

be, XX-year Yes. I I that expect can take to recovering, to haircut. mean, mean, sense make life there but to doesn't a we

all view agree. based on It's your of I timing,

Okay, great. I so Well, appreciate much. Thanks color. the

this to Speakers, would time. the remarks. closing Mr. I'm further in back I queue any Rothstein for questions to the like at now showing no turn call

Thanks, No comments at point. operator. this

Thank you all for participating. program. This concludes today's

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