Sun Life Financial (SLF) 3 Nov 222022 Q3 Earnings call transcript

Good morning, and welcome to the Sun Life Financial Q3 2022 Conference Call. My name is Michelle, and I'll be your conference operator today. [Operator Instructions]. The hold of the call is Yaniv Bitton, Vice President, Head of Investor Relations and Capital Markets. Please go ahead, Mr. Mitten.

good the Welcome Third and Earnings Sun operator, for Call Quarter you, morning, to everyone. Life's Thank of XXXX.

and Investor our release available earnings the today's for Our call on the at Relations website of section sunlife.com. slides are

opening We from President Kevin Officer. remarks will Executive call Chief Strain, today's begin with and

call. we President portion Manjit results After quarter. for Vice Financial members will to will question-and-answer and Other remarks, the move Kevin, the are this Following to Executive then management Officer, of the your the Chief answer Singh, morning. also present financial of prepared the available questions

Turning to forward-looking cautionary statements draw remarks. form attention of language financial non-IFRS to today's measures, which Slide the X. I and part use regarding the of your

rendered As turn noted inaccurate I'll with over events. things in now that, And the subsequent slides, be Kevin. may by to forward-looking statements

Thanks, Yaniv, everyone. good and morning,

the third X. saw and U.S. line the strong reflecting businesses COVID-related results deliver DentaQuest, underlying underlying strong double and of addition year Turning earnings our a almost Health from to impacts. environment. ability and delivered last in Solutions diversified top quarter significant earnings moderation with results a Slide of even of have challenging to results, Risk and We strong the growth sales We

on management strategies. assets strong equity rates. MFS impacted fell. quarter, earnings central Asia. decline GRS Interest are as raising other flows earnings sensitive continued strong and continued also insurance top the having our COVID by SLGI growth businesses, SLC and Overall, line along well also delivered rates alternative most fee AUM declines deliver Asia for saw fight from as grew markets sales. but commitments. asset inflation impact a result including and as Canada to across to executed Canada MFS Management strategy, our markets in continue with and an equity our as banks across on emerge including our to income underlying strong and to began markets in of restrictions, outflows insurance we attract had their and

at quarter the Our market Reported year-over-year rapidly the during was goodwill remained of in net million result as in Management, an at for results rising income offset down strong U.K. U.S., of negative and were and LICAT in impact ratio was Underlying which of to a asset X% million a protection income XX% volatility, the year-to-date markets. XXX% the interest businesses our SLC $XXX driven rates. impacted quarter net up increase put related solid Management income despite write-down the and with and equity by were $XXX liabilities. health Canada wealth earnings. by Asia declines strong lower by These global of

have MFS top our management return returns reflected continues alternative assets equity U.S. strong medium-term record flows XX.X% earnings asset objective fundamentals, approaching in a performance. of SLC strong the in the management of space retail performance generate businesses manager manager, Our our is to focused equity in our delivering asset and XX% strong and billion of clients. a to strong crossed Underlying on the quarter. the with $XXX quarter, of XX track Management, plus. strong on under long

also few independent a dividend. September, struck Management, pleased retail high comments, distribution we strategy the U.S. providing market. intention quarter. we in net of become of and and a an Management, the sale new we our the arm Slide and the capital Phoenix the Management. flows SLC of share both will partnership in of our remained an announced to solid will to business quarter, important asset business with also driver common provides U.S. examples my for them, Advisors increase And X retail stake majority In worth earlier mentioned believe channel we in course, MFS AAM, important were which acquire $X.XX distribution to management leading U.K. third a As firm. announce that initiatives or in an of client impact of U.S. SLC AAM be drove our to alternatives Asset our a in announced just

We expand high enhance and to for worth our clients Asia. continue offerings in net

This This the life investment seventh time ratings consecutive a is Capital achieved Aurora, that InfraRed latest quarter, investment global we has practices. universal principles investment X-star of the infrastructure its InfraRed our highest infrastructure ESG throughout launched for indexed in integration for PRI received Sun savings-oriented Global manager, product. responsible Partners, assessment. possible rating the

different managed announced will health development partnership increase improve with a addition, from health with highlights access help individuals serving equity And Canada. DentaQuest and their new care Sun in partners ways. intellectual how showcases program X adoption increasing benefit in Life This of care for oral Health disabilities. surrogacy this all. and a to in community, This the for people nonprofit grow in In digital organization September, Slide wants other new plan, underserved a recognition outcomes quarter. families was and

strides impact more a in digital journey client, company. excellent employer, providing to great can seen and adviser and we steps as we like make begin on think These and clearly our important digital have to digital continue are partner have We act the experiences. positive

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optimal well-being to every all proud is as bring giving employees physical Sun fostered to and goal we mental business offer to a selves that work their of our how culture of initiatives continues and suite empower experience diversity, challenging they equity to to a helps need these of mental perform work, place them ensure values well-being. support proud best we're Our everything to employees employees day, to to know life I'm to a the achieve and flourish programs and conditions. that during by and safe inclusion. that strive We

security and quarter our results. strong driven With the I'll lives. people and walk will the financial third us that, and call Manjit, over who for through passion live achieve is lifetime performance hand Our our healthier culture to clients helping by

sale million, Thank management X was underlying of prior $XXX quarter by equity Underlying wealth than year. The and the lower of the neutral an X% $X ACMA in our driven our by impacts quarter strength for increase impacts, strong write-off the earnings, in and third resulted of U.K. net was market-related to $XXX and our quarter. business were an in income results. the the share Underlying DentaQuest, COVID-related you, share up up business, Book results income growth businesses, Overall, for to our good our the gains earnings diversified at benefits the to actuarial everyone. provides on in Strong from acquisition-related Management year. million. liabilities related businesses partially was charge Slide reflect of the quarter compared relatively SLC prior morning, overview offset from underlying return Kevin, health annual including strong of full our goodwill and million and prior Reported of results. mix. per year. a offset a lower and XX.X% $X.XX protection net moderating contribution review of impact more over per value asset of X% ACMA and

impacts per other income, book X%. was Excluding up comprehensive value share and

SLF with ratios maintain LICAT capital at QX XXX% The XXX% of was We XX.X%. leverage continue at and ratio SLA. position a to solid

redemption announced XX.X% and XXX%. debt the is forma QX, of leverage in subordinated million is LICAT ratio SLF pro $XXX With of

USD markets first the experience retail with of of from prior XXX AUM fair were reflecting the was XXX by USD on payment performance QX. proportion lower sales group from macroeconomic remain That starting turn outstanding X.X reported outflows Retail half let's as Now X% our Underlying AUM year net outflows. were changes to USD of environment. on continued MFS. to quarter year, XX compared MFS to income was net XX.X income QX, up awards. U.S. the Slide and billion uncertain value Institutional improved of down reflecting driven share-based versus the due XX%, redemptions the investors have XXX billion largely incentive million business lower operating percentage points and impacted X.X seasonally down net X% largely outflows generated equity the declines reflecting lower USD net margin net billion XX%. in was net in by markets. equity redemption by in to billion. of The assets, X an slower quarter, the of retail MFS net USD margin pretax compensation MFS activity from of a as of a said, global increased operating prior rates average primarily in in higher million, industry. sidelines USD

$XX prior an that are probability-weighted invested, billion driven XX. Underlying update Life fees. gains and of saw acquisition-related SLC reported this is Underlying Slide investment not plan in in billion estimate a asset of classes. Capital quarter due and $XX Fee-related increase $X.X fee prior had across the AUM time XXXX. net inflows deployment and were X% up par Turning loss XX, approximately driven sales prior strategic business the the business. million of sales was update the and liabilities in income of market-related net million. income wealth gains Protection million of SLC planning SLC liability these income Management fee-earning more will investments with individual in retail used than $XXX that year-over-year all $XX around reflecting raising down of by by to driven earnings AUM. to Reported continued generate earnings these activity growth at fee On year, year investment the while of the prior million into as Health reflects outcomes underlying strong annualized at million. sales, conjunction $XXX was lower $XX momentum the revenue an to to and our were million liabilities. net lower process. strong million impacts. earning up million continued capital This mainly the put/call year-over-year. income. from income to Sun of Management year, well income management $XX capital year, $XX $XXX Total raising of the yet Management net by assets of health reported in down by increase reflect Once includes in positive was from charge the of Slide from weaker reflects Canada's offset was We The investor activity. insurance by XX% growth higher businesses strong driven the partially as maturity fee year the with in net

results the The Slide quarter XX reported We're Turning full XXX DentaQuest income was of DentaQuest a U.S. net by underlying strong up and contribution. XX USD group million the which million. benefits income million USD from were USD pleased prior performance results quarter, year. up were to very this was XX of with And USD of expectations. XX. net our million driven

Benefit progress quarters. and milestones was and the that moderation Group integration we highlighted that pricing in earnings mortality We our reflected in a strong, meet will fundamentals we significant persistency, client earnings synergies on Sales confident have good year. solid margins. U.S. results prior business we excluding outlined the and growing from and premiums This also XX%, strong and The XX% stop-loss impacts. year-over-year contribution good making expense of up are are COVID-related growth disability include last Dental. up the includes

year-over-year highly and Overall, Underlying be the more quarter-to-quarter for contracts constant was annual year strengthening benefits the the which businesses, As in generated DentaQuest gains. favorable returns. million XX% year-over-year sales XX down net Dental mortality, net XX% income generate moderating quarter. our space. currency than driven compared ACMA result was U.S. XX% cycles Slide revenue included to a outlines and and Asia's due in terms variable Reported have reminder, large on following going to prior $XXX improved constant this The quarter. care investing forward, million, as up results income can reserve a the be a our of acquisition, gain government COVID-related sales experience by larger the $XXX longer will of currency health higher program in by strong basis. was shorter

and year-over-year in India improved earnings down, were to contributed also joint reflecting growth, lower in Wealth including China. and in Our favorable mortality equity experience markets. policyholder Asia investment ventures the

growth double-digit products being and reported traction of the seeing as and in new restrictions market, capabilities. markets sales new in respective nearly lifted, strong we're every insurance momentum the digital Asia gain are rollout

experienced have with of the Sun market last which volatility, On led remained India, the years, to quarter we earnings over results. period the side, pleased net wealth in activity. underlying Philippines resilient. the investor third Kong, outflows Overall, Throughout Hong are few and Life's reflecting weaker a significant volatility we

will expect we that, environment. positions, challenging. for key to our Q&A. As risk we business leadership through turn near-term We I'll Yaniv, ahead, business environment in this look talent strengths established to model, and back the managing remain prudent call With diversified management strong believe the you, operating be

participants. or you, Manjit. the please ask with to then ensure participants questions morning, our an Thank X have questions. now requeue all help To questions will X and the additional operator to any yourselves ask that this pull opportunity to limit I

[Operator Instructions].

Canaccord Your first question with from Chan Genuity. Scott comes

the our talked seems the redemptions sequentially. that more look you the questions when be to X gross Manjit, My are gross being But on quarters I about materially than at industry. MFS. better on platform the last issue sales, down

if Any looking helpful wondering being be Is forward. any of it color picture issues? overweight Is there's gross there? it color of just So would products sales kind kind on the performance equity?

We'll over hand that to Mike, Scott.

all that types. fixed across Roberge. Yes, see happening if types. product sales Mike equity, dramatically We mean, you we what's it's at Scott, I are is the look see in industry industry, down across pretty product that across income

And so our look of at share when outflows. you

net sort sales. a stay on our then people markets. the and the on our redemption the of less share tough than assets, relative. to So looking the other at the side so of we're function going the is and of as relative look right through of assets, volatility again, look slowdown. that's our -- to clients they're in we're you what down sales when net some And -- that economic that outflows sales with But now, net gets sales the are the can doing are the side, the active cycle generating is at time flows to control comes side, of industry we industry way volatility and the it clearly, of until tough Fed of think We period for end the

And industry. now own we we're are the retail pretty relative industry, the so but think the right in our challenging to dynamics holding

MFS' Or question picture your on anything asset on one side for can is Like well big Is if on Kevin is groups something side SLC at firm. more traditional could in that the product the right leave terms the do And and going in quite that specifically separate challenges I just there now? cross-selling? alternative for doing maybe or being Mike. sneak of together like of kind to Or clearly the done like any is you now? management, that you're of road something down where amongst

Well, where earlier SLC transaction an announced will area and Phoenix Scott, MFS this that's we managers. the both quarter fund be and

of part strategic the were they both Phoenix, partnership. For

across alternative Steve they're income flows, about think right? of asset different classes, Mike things, in is, public we about course, Steve the space. fixed as MFS equity has talk course, the Of and So very and and but

that entities. both, there's So discussions as are obviously but run separate they happen across

Your MacKinnon BMO. comes with from Tom next question

two question Just or one questions. -- with

look forward, the as just at maybe The some given sales due first then to DB case, And follow-up. to what's impact that going the Solutions -- business, seemed new of that's we Solutions and have outlook the then the the of individual at sales is especially macro sales on DB but had environment And is I being -- interest down? in the rate Was well? have least environment if if impact insurance, a new business significantly. we just for Canada, better largely in down

Tom, this Jacques. is

start with that. me Let

new So you've and identified it. business down gains are

QX as is got quarter, in lumpy If you is the nearly good, gains. but mix Benefit Defined Solutions. sales last the is more sales the much insurance We've main lumpy That's -- XXXX, less There par generate remember, business good are we sales not had this up, Individual driver. -- favorable. doesn't but good that as time. as

In you now. fairly buyout very key Benefit execute strong Defined funded know, terms ratios annuity The there the Solutions, where is funded in or healthy. is pipeline the And as right outlook not, ratio. QX looking an into going of remain their metric clients

market for a or that U.S. nascent whether well very team are jurisdictions do and So before said got and innovative us. great are when relatively we particularly this to We've actuaries a to complex. a that market. I've it's tend it's of times and ahead, many way I is deals U.K., growth compare other still we mean

DBS potential confident we're quite forward. So about growth the of going

earnings the $XX rates must can income -- million; $XXX Like at no $XXX the as look what the on This maybe first a I helping, -- be mean gains. bit is things I was if is, wouldn't necessarily question follow-up more quarter, mark-to-market. third second of wouldn't be that, million. the little color the was term, million; on keep component clipping. longer And great. investment because interest quarter you There's that's surplus, you give strictly your Well, but these just

interest So earnings surplus would maybe for component earnings talk got about income be outlook and of rise. you've investment here as -- on the what what the rates

for Yes. Tom. you Manjit. your Thank question, It's

that really, the driving really The has significant interest income the you're we've that And So year. main then been little in bit in QX growth work to drive factor really way increases its throughout part QX saw and the first a time in you take through. in significant increase of to of helped that quarter-over-quarter right. that seen investment increase. But rates does that

rate a more are there available-for-sale within quarter-to-quarter. few shift increases. moderate are other like surplus that have gains on components the but the securities, bit impacts can can impact impact those and those the other a little you But from the earnings interest and on was Now from big

So were there's longer-term coupon, -- bonds, if value same impact but no you in the clipped you market invested just here.

about unique anything you're invested is what in? So

of Yes, and we and -- we rate including short-term do some have also well. as fair have floating instruments assets bit a

get rates do interest increase up, in short-term as go an So income. you the investment

Okay. quick And if one in. I just squeeze could one

had We've that? suggest that better the that to an the U.S. in outlook would because before. be with should morbidity, economic got looking be You best troubles some at quarter it to be How to improving breakeven Just going significantly. seemed we Is uncertain the environment. than forward? respect seems

Fishbein. Dan It's

on we parts to there's obviously So -- this. morbidity, different

also strong the we making quarter reduction quite They off in come to in of Obviously, in positive Then terms QX was what and but some biggest pricing a due in impact last of that to and incidents direct those, to available, there due a benefit bit of know still obviously, morbidity continue we -- better. experience related underwriting stop-loss certainly experience still earlier while. of underwriting. -- that hospitals incidents. can came we're still First we're from coming and But to course, both of see is STD STD in COVID disability those most our our was That's continued the where and mostly QX LTD hope a stop-loss to quarter. And very utilization from capacity LTD tend of good mostly hospitals the incidents actions. you is and from businesses, of business incidents. There's the impact difficult improve, from COVID strong. and our confident claims to lower did will more somewhat related less that disability the COVID of was in Sequentially, and a pricing. impacts, to all,

Your next comes from Grauman Scotiabank. with question Meny

resilience we if business the of get thinking Group scenarios see need terms really, in some talked downside year? we to but downside impacted. better question rates I of hallmark definitely understand quarter, I terms your -- U.S. that the this economic Presumably, wanted the the than in specifically, we've from XXXX. look for business of for A the risk a really is revisit it for wanted about, as that more is the overall risks the unemployment U.S. the something but in a on Certainly, And U.S. at recession out of for the to It's to in to the U.S. results the implications wanted U.S. business. spike business. vulnerability understand next in Benefits I Dental dynamics to big before through business to

Sure, A Meny. that. on This is thoughts Dan few again.

seeing are of is on wages. And -- Benefits impact all, boost many inflation we the in to inflation. give the offer right we're tends Benefits are the actually obviously, a economic business based least U.S. now First results. benefits of at biggest to

volumes environment, So and go a well. very finding as we're employers the job that wages as up tight interested competitive very are attractive go in benefits. Also very providing in up,

rates amount things and up uptick long-term uptake is in offered. incidents. to kind the of benefits If some that's in typically one end we of of disability environment, see the recessionary being a the point, we So driving up your

one certainly that to historically, but However, play take would does few thing a have that's closely. we watch years out, to

they coming those will out the of and of we're reduction we employers value some is think causing recession the before pandemic. that as even more pandemic the in continue. finding benefits benefits, than far employees both the trends did worst what And As

are benefits and things So that think employers one last of employees away move would their we from. the

we're So LTD always, if incidents. But pressure concerned course, about be recession, there of some there is volume. might a less on as

in then we the lot And X% profit business in reiterated a a Benefits talked as about after-tax and guidance particular, just follow-up margin the quarter. Group you the last

Just look -- way have really history could your But perspective? of we your that experience, like wondering margin based kind a recessionary that how that a in from profit don't for good what measure. on scenario? question any that to Is approach there

Yes.

think point X-month the say. based a I not necessarily really obviously I -- a Again, some areas. gave, on the margin, LGD, in just that's would is but trailing on hard profit way, by other to on would comments X-quarter the pressure out indicator. it be I there

happen really drop some in from recession, off what QX, But weak a would predict. hard terms the in So of it's that we'll prior as of up. go we quarters very really last last see QX, to

Mario from TD Your comes with next question Securities. Mendonca

items? my question, against were it's in sheet? but quarter. Or there other those payment first how is that? off liabilities SLC it help accounting they to Manjit, understand eventually understand that liabilities made? a that's come Are booked actual the the bit balance acquisition some -- accounting those an me offset want you How intensive, Can do is I little

Sure, Mario.

right. You're

call XXXX in accruing have XXXX we the option the and we're what or put will the So for we when at option. liability maturity be think

the exercise will we payment. come and liability the once up offset be will a that, so And cash

Yes.

flows earnings any never So It's the a actually back in liability way. into payment.

Correct.

Okay.

seeing have What have as fallen a touch I a other variable by of just just Or we down. are me The but just really with may that been a simply ratcheted to of activities? gross that quickly have I how are something there? and thing just appreciate I've surprised there there is that more lot on challenge MFS. impresses then kind here this I quickly sales wanted Is is expenses there's Is appreciated? -- more the that be here, other component fallen? commissions

Manjit, Hey, that. take Mike Roberge. I'll It's

fairly If our flexes you formulaic look cost an in our of pool like environment XX% down the that are compensation at profitability base, with costs this. and

payments as flex come down well. down then assets to pay as dealers down Asset-based will environment, come commissions a tougher in we sales sales and

up in And sales even to that's the not so now. we environment, pay prefer but commissions environment a we're in tougher that

variable base we some and our the make And that although because operating leverage way negative clearly helps, obviously do a so there's through the even fixed expense our some there's business as have fairly component in we to cycle. costs

But making actually the operating that's on. going generating everything observation positive was actually that's that the despite leverage company I is

to So it just odd seems so see.

you to it look But if -- got you look at year-over-year.

where So as compensation. you look year amortize quarter-over-quarter, of have -- at half we do in Manjit first mentioned, long-term have if the we seasonality you the the stock

If you ANA look at XX%. the last year-over-year third quarter, down XX%, down pretax

that as follow them, interest is. to downward. helped being are going couple offsets of which you're interest us profitability to look at income have ANA what up. to gone a But there There's see rates you one of flexed if some it year-on-year, has it -- So effectively, has tends

with question next from Desjardins. Doug comes Your Young

the business that to were sales losses. out new all Just look in at and strong pointed And of you wanted go regions. to Asia the

by in comments. that markets But a in why business you Manjit, that is driven your seeing in not what think -- rates mechanics an higher, the have deterioration mentioned wondering interest you we're I been not just and improvement. I'm new that XX% but obviously, losses, moving international on and constant underlying how Asia, then much of was on vein local FX. Can break are an versus out unfolding. same basis? the earnings underlying up And we're

Johnson here. It's Ingrid

that's also investing $X you we actually we have where new necessarily small through strain, quarter. wouldn't year, of international on then And in business sales business year your million come every so it's scale. actually if a we're on look as previous lumpy, and the a to So that are really question function clearly, down the this and build

of each So of actually I'd net you versus particularly selective to the MCV we encouraging the more good still which positive . would China the we as Kong what particularly we're local see high China, constrained then variability would but If some well some on make see you'll businesses Again, VNB. that markets, also with cross-border sales off yet momentum, emergence profitable much Hong individual sales, perspective, Mainland in just through as seen that strong the mix. good very insurance good in side. either sure less because gains hub, From but a we've weak on in see the Hong move but of but the digital a visitors, a you Chinese seeing rather through within just a is extremely but I encouraging. was Mainland also as albeit China From net product Kong, markets local have worth, the where very then fix, effectively absence deal positive year hubs, is origination, prior innovation take-up, reinvestments, business in quarter. slightly new

even Indonesia, see You on where we've the in sales banker momentum very strong strong all seen growth.

on including the enhanced So Indonesia. And the of a markets, theme client and aspect other then the in case fact, segments our important Malaysia specific China, that size. across is is focus common we've all India, where

net underlying that's into again, through our So income. flowing

pandemic. benefits insurance emergence is showing of the So income clearly from the

of described, However, same risk Roberge we're money more Asia a from products. flow wealth bank to a market mindset those competitive seeing Mike where in is there's effects as and funds similar to, away

we're net through in. the comes So that's adverse. an cycle underlying And clearly, we see in that income as flow

maybe new not Is make to you international new simplify that that seeing it the markets? -- local I in in and losses business is can that just inference? Or And case? gains business are is,

the to the will multiplicity where other business Otherwise, of you wouldn't in a see business. focused think going an we investing. write Whereas international new of I wish adverse by are of are some more it's because on to driven be we gains. markets factors

And business because is side -- Okay. on earnings, sense just international then any on we of underlying underlying from coming at versus that down like drill local of new look more markets, gains? when the earnings of international the on those

international which what I we've more is mean is profitable, seen. definitely

emergence function from down, of the that been Hong profitable. for have pandemic. that's would been But and those So also have would likewise sales Kong more again, a

start a So going positive see you're to to impact. more

Yes.

one fine. on just DentaQuest. the And That's Dan Okay. for then

$X earnings, what an underlying I contribution you Dental if from bit I looks the is you was from the outside think curious Because more DentaQuest looking well. million. show on earnings provide can can think, that? to it going? update integration going it's as how a for quantify I'm reported like you of of in, And the

little get wanted Just detail. more a to

Sure, Doug.

look at that DentaQuest. there million you $XX all If the show, is essentially expense integration we the line

target million. is And quarter. The million accretion we our inference $X full basically, the puts transaction. But and of first a you that from of million $XX quarter. So set this in line and with the get and the add make just that course, in takes. that back $XX And $XX million the there's DentaQuest comes we together that the you is few and announced when can

integration well. our strongest the itself had. So full the decisions we're very Overall, pleased, in I'll target terms obviously, the and in a going to expense The pipelines add We're good the is mark is very on synergies. very well. be for on schedule quarter. making ever on of first integration pipeline, and that putting teams one of together they've DentaQuest has also And going

they of a lumpy. sales, is what do, with they Now to big portion government be tend which

So where strong. sometimes sometimes the a couple said, don't. very is pipeline of sales there's as get I you quarter big and you a But

National Dechaine comes question from next Your Bank Gabriel Financial. with

change? characteristics Yes. I makeup what that percent duration could just portfolio, up and earnings that on how Can and some is rates the of the you floating cash maybe to in on want surplus portfolio. follow of the and provide X-year curve, of already considering up to expect you're while, maybe end little X some locking but I educate bond yields. not the you're next if It going higher over years, in the in hasn't me. the changed

that, I'll So start Gabe. It's Manjit.

I rate on I doesn't basis. regular spoke would And quarter. about it would related look rebalance quarter-to-quarter. the our we driving to the terms on surplus the That interest So investment not lot do aspect as sort move earnings say, of but earlier we Obviously, in a income it of we the floating from what's at that's isn't rate a increases. really see what's driving fit, this portfolio around

-- is Gabriel, it's This Yes. Brown. Randy

collateral et surpluses, add and posting, comes and in or out Surplus out would the needs various dividends and cetera. of that. in business to for come I needs money So

we So it of we I'd big rates floating short the is anticipated rising into a benefit but does And what and rate bit, that. purposefully around portfolio. indeed move get say it's assets a did move

of... decisions is there rates Trying until So a making should are tactical continue sense there? income at decision some Or cut? a you It point. of made to get similar any to generate are other levels

seeing are the... We

Is it sustainable?

Fed seen is have we market from the rate of short an continued rises. announcement, reaction expectation Well, yesterday's

forward a the be rates should longer some expect Difficulty]. to begin [Technical from to and we will coupons would we And of of those in term, able get So But expectations to drop. benefit that. as to point peak

Right.

if really you're or has the know changed if mix -- just and Okay. no making if want not... allocation any decisions, I to

allocation Gabriel. No No. big decisions or changes,

from Persaud Securities. Your with next comes Lemar Cormark question

to want to DentaQuest. back just I come

couple the that having could to Life. topic but of expenses a revenue. announcement, the Now at we Sun I'm revisit it synergies. estimate under of I that into about not synergies you're wondering recall revenue seem talking was months if just potential

So is that for if you wondering I'm And that up size correct? us. could

I make comments qualitative Yes. on that. can some

DentaQuest focused in were in course, that primarily an area the not is we which Dental, on of business is before. programs government So,

not with together So can even business Where big there's at-scale the overlap larger and the commercial possibly that a Assurant as much business. businesses capabilities we revenue up Life is very charge DentaQuest commercial from Sun legacy the the really be there. put come there synergies and

we're didn't us. over but That we of a in upside potentially right a period longer some be that lot benefits time, emerge projections So will around for That from already put that. you're our that. seeing would

sales commercial that's more are also of business. that's For we margin, our products. example, this in ROE highest partnership up product great And Dental also opportunities competitive significantly and forward, our and highest because more our one year, anticipate a going

a business collaborated together Fullscope array In the that a had major partner. potential with fact, was broader partnership. our made commercial time DentaQuest the of to we and first products significant quarter, new it during And progress to offer a

your point, as about there. we say to So emerge. more things those and upside opportunity we'll obviously And to see definitely that have

comes with CIBC. Paul from Holden question next Your

to quickly want in guess better and Management are the and buyout. that buyout I on associated the Asset SLC assumptions. driving discussion expectations want assuming liability that future I back are is implies increase just future go there liability. to I'm that the with your exactly the with what exceeding understand it to is what And certain the future components associated I prior

correct? exceeding it if that's assumptions, is prior your exactly what I'm So

Manjit. it's Paul,

is So out as liability the the we into future. said,

the have to and what about well. one we So do of by things to driven -- to try as it's think largely is the EBITDA

project be what to will to doing. EBITDA So try the we have

And in so narrow number to we run we we that have line some we closer get line, have Obviously, scenarios XXXX. what that because and like scenarios would to XXXX of as those as we time look could -- sight. more

So that's is quarter of sort able range those liability. what to and the of in this that narrow higher you're were that we seeing outcomes resulted

higher... maybe you of moving range Okay. average that the is understand narrowing I range, but narrowing, And when say of also the

we higher. scenarios I base But It run, guess, be at remember, the if Investor at the was that average the Day target Yes. will be range? we number. a that average the that look set of And you would

number different the for the than base liability. And using is so what that that average we're

it generating in in asked value Kevin investments generation the when in made the good this Fundamentally, be see it's we price. liability of going SLC a Mario value will we're purchase Strain. Paul, thing that it's reflected means earlier and up because as we've

So estimate value a creation our the reflection inside SLC of of of businesses. really it's

growth transpiring are exceeded flows Totally and your just expectations? margins Manjit I'm initial gave drill trying have is are there details what get some I'm and it exceeding that's Or EBITDA. down, other what Is exceeding kind expectations? of think to maybe understand to I that. I expectations to is that's it that's guess trying around understand. factors? And asset it

and interest at was time uncertainty a we those we a we things were -- things, of what Kevin. and the real It's and like. of look when of fair markets markets would I bought at CFO and period, were amount And estate looking equity was X-year markets time. these types there

in all And initial up 'XX certainty things. that's to time, you factor So of what your estimate, of in those get going set when 'XX. we you over be and more

This Peacher. is or throw X. just can I Maybe comment in a Steve

higher raising have underlying are If it's -- look your you the you right products that manifest of do all drivers investment and is the about will AUM. in you strong, business, the itself at performance

our at and are both rates. earning look measures, So pretty if AUM growing good AUM, at you fee X AUM then

feel drives revenue. in good margin So And we fee business. some there that. that think continue we forward, positive grows, that to That management when about going operating as be the about should the

but that try the view more get as project over in that we that. future of which these is better our deals. good the good we But all extent. expected when we of have, kind I feel years, continuing then quarter. and will and every ultimate next weighting that feel we boil this, We've the some we down at And have about few to to think the got the then We into we liability to we fundamental drive have momentum to scenarios a payout the about we look of that that feel into pretty in, downs, ups various reflects kind the and the

Okay.

is Okay. That's Dan. then And I for helpful. follow-up. quick one And this guess

behind think tailwinds pricing inflation Benefits. Group mentioned I and stop-loss and You

Just upcoming on would looks wondering further or of the be if view sort more flavor strong, I but any thoughts you around any you can give said on appreciated. commentary there color your cycle. imagine that based renewal the it

time sales obviously renewal year. of Sure. in the the We're Yes. and biggest

January have the competitors perhaps the that, also and some business during quarter is is in quite tilt for XX% overly the as in Dental X will Group What the who and aggressive, And being same margins we're fourth stop-loss So as versus towards I market are volumes. season is the for sold always, for would date. always sales business, renews businesses the always example, of say well. we competitive we and

inflationary to there pressures. bit are there's their So the same business, impact that all time, will there pressure At is especially And the several the Especially next business, need prices over right causing in stop-loss then out of little play the the a appropriately. mortality participants now. no raise COVID in Group weeks. to of question,

increases a competitive So and some Definitely we there. environment. significantly of and price experience-related counterbalancing have a forces couple inflationary

Your Mihelic Markets. from Darko next question comes RBC with Capital

apologize difficulties with some I phone. I been the if has had asked. this

updates And question first caused lapse. It just Vietnam fire sales the we of But issue on Asia. that? about are adverse in you some forward? was that is some should which with the So it same the Can and the to there, time, going respect think is what how talk strength maybe policyholder at lapse great. like does had look to Vietnam, I

you very It's questions. much Ingrid for Johnson. Thank your

in the We and the agency excited seeing both seeing bank with agents and we that we're and the as opportunity, as TP Vietnam about uplift attract already a twofold relationships as we're are very on sales. very well assurance Bank ACV quality

So we so that a the that clearly a positive low base, time. is would should momentum expect, but meet over off percentages

initial this that some early sales some we've to relationships, have and and what as bancassurance that's we negatives products corrected are quarter. we bank to these bancassurance, needed the less On would experience relative observed we change

understand more as to that shifted we to relevant a for products appropriate reduce the outcome client segments that we've positive sell loans. are sales mix the more insurance short-term So we forward, of and going should bank expect relative

helpful. That's Great. Okay.

been And Manjit, for Morrissey. is Kevin has changed. product So next maybe my the question

update May And ever that so that in I confirm on changed it You really I helpful to guys nothing's haven't one thing wanted -- work seen anything a quarter, provided the then. XX. in very just IFRS since this

a IFRS how XX. of understanding things You've probably look got better under

growth for far your that when you that Is assumption had there would are should that we IFRS of underlying that a XX, me good any to about of since net positive May? just under forward XXXX. So And off learnings or for confirm think expect ideas numbers any thoughts wanted make? so income XXXX still to change we

well. Kevin and start then I'll chime in So can as

quarter, So that this overall, there providing is no information we're new Darko.

that the appropriate. is information May XX So still we provided at

into under our the As account working runs continuing just a to dual like environment. market earnings, impacts, number The we're this the and underlying all we quarter. take including the you still do IFRS said, X, through factors, we're of

underlying if will be. will know, be growth So of add also you the want what that don't Kevin, in factor I to anything? year-over-year a terms

Yes. add. here. It's Kevin Not lot to Darko. Morrissey a

We through, you as going mentioned, been reporting. dual have our

into couple we now. say the So I'd it's one the business. good that changes. just But aren't through third our We're we've confirming it's quarters. a of any deepening our of seeing news and information quite gone in understanding

that's think the I So May. we update it's is the good fundamental changing from any messages news gave not in

confirmation. that for much very you Thank Great. Okay.

Your comes question next from D'Souza Nigel Veritas with Investment Research.

to up debt wanted I side. follow on the

quarter this those of are You sizable and last lower And had quarter. redemptions coupon X yielding debt.

fact a a So of on environment, place going the forward. That trend and surplus earnings that on earnings to in guess, get pressure impacted just higher component on how trying on expect upwards I to sense that interest of Should forward? rate we year-over-year. higher component surplus in debt is going is quarter-over-quarter, higher

Nigel, Manjit. it's

So the we closed the DentaQuest quarter. debt was fact cost also to last increase that related in the

the had issued that debt you So DentaQuest. for we

November. that's there. then early in also maturing of did issuance is showing we So the an that up sub And

X contributed surplus earnings So those were costs the components and seeing. to higher debt on that you're that

continue to that Should forward? trend this going Or higher? it stabilized point? component that on has comments at Any

period. to going outstanding some remarks, mentioned debt for see the going to in I we're to Well, maturing be -- prepared redeem in my we're November, the we're -- going as of that will

rates. that of some And debt is floating

you're number go rates some well. in up, interest as changes as going So to that see, that obviously,

question mortality, in on I Okay. side. and Retirement. favorable Great. Group to U.K. impact last related particularly had you the that was ACMA and noticed a my second And

side? is get sense the drop we're seeing driven unfavorable impact actual Just of mortality when by the COVID? to that there, in a favorable Any that an might drop could down line, a So be on impact trying experience. of sense far liability to

the question, Kevin for Thanks Nigel. Morrissey. This is

COVID. was mortality, business, on we in it not So the and U.K. Canada you're related that in payout annuity some very to see both did in was And but favorable impacts ACMA right, from

the the but insurance life business. longer still we was future from actual on on the the some no businesses, will the neutral made as do like that. But hold, what to through did of observing we'll the it's of benign going some of the pricing we And business, valuation in it's more that. I emphasize experience On the other cycle we've that shorter say seen on expectation longer-term a severe, want get businesses been to some fairly impact kind did COVID. it's have, So assumptions and see There group term and favorable say, not fact business. been a where update we we're significant include I'd that

So...

no closing further at turn have Mr. time. Bitton will I this for to We things remarks. questions And

call. you, today's replay Relations on A have call day. the and our good of Investor will website. section of Thank Difficulty] available [Technical the be a