Fidelity National Financial (FNF) 9 Nov 222022 Q3 Earnings call transcript

Good morning and welcome to FNF's Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, Senior Vice President, Investor and External Relations. Please go ahead.

Great. everyone, third welcome, call. XXXX and operator to quarter FNF's earnings Thanks,

Nolan. telephone turn webcast Mike our our November that, from the I'll today materially And Non-GAAP beginning measures through for It implied. that GAAP be guarantee we future over Blunt, And Officer undertake on projections materials refer me the Chief not rules investors. to differ within Financial at with questions or replay Officer; factors the our forward-looking Chief or for performance. recorded non-GAAP revise Chris Reform update and with Eastern This Nolan, not meaningful are is Officer. include do cause Act as accordance available call may prepared strategy. a the we Chief replay Officer; been could as which Joining Yesterday, to Private to call to Mike that to available on today's believe our events to Securities events reconciled We p.m. measures website. following release do Park, We recent filings in includes quarterly a Executive look information, also today be those annual any or fnf.com. through available discussion addressing where Please have F&G's to financial Wendy Litigation results available which and also Young, and company's most XXXX. changes also and actual SEC call in subsequent under is forward Tony discussion website. well remarks. and to F&G's Chief earnings may reports of morning's duty or our required SEC now issued Executive your at CEO, reflect will and earnings statements being Financial XX, such Time expressed will statements X:XX press new be other Today's

housing from and and Thank concerns market inflation, headwinds you, about morning. had Lisa recession. have Overall, risk rates we despite ongoing of interest quarter good a growing strong another surging

has strategy its well under to September continued assets continued mortgage management declining on growth $XX diversified to F&G to XX. business title deliver with billion Our climbing despite originations, perform at while

of Looking to forward, and on we in of commercial the to driven track record by was weeks $XXX with shareholders third by orders. title quarter million. This the business, file, in XX% commercial the closed complete of Starting are partially Chris distribution details more ago total a million, a dividend was in will XX% FNF quarter decrease revenue XX% ownership year provide a minute. $XXX per a coming increase offset compared with our in fee F&G

make of on residential average mortgage has we level one rate XXXX headlines experienced fastest to to is since rates for X%, not weeks, for just XXXX. matter seen XXXX. of over now of side, half rates in X.X% have the moves the And the continues first jumped the mortgage On seen. in a a The XX-year from mortgage X.X% rising focus as ever

market in decline dynamic normal and rates pressure half to housing mortgage transactions. affordability our order adding the environment the decline rise falloff resulting in as As seasonal expected, this volumes and resulting purchase and are are rapid impacting second

the of for XX% opened purchase the down down down XXXX prior September in decrease daily orders the an overall XX% August closely, and year. more volumes quarter for prior third residential quarter quarter in compared and orders versus in July, October from at in the third were year. XX% XX% Daily purchase to of Looking closed third month were XX% the XX%

quickly volumes to second not and or in return turning saw sensitive, rates. near refinance expect current decline the begin operations. and orders levels at believe our mortgage we quarter in rate inherently more would rightsize to reduction move We trough to to are volumes meaningful refinance XXXX Next refinance in a of which that are volumes XXXX without

our down quarter, XXXX opened XX% October orders third third year. the for quarter the month of day the were per from XX% the versus prior refinance and For of down

volumes revenue third commercial the was the buffer third we compared year, have purchase quarter market Refinance to diversification quarter revenue refinance total XX% helped Over XXXX. residential last as have to only from of as refinance Title benefited lower in fallen, have our the volumes. segments direct and in of across X% revenue

levels, years. volumes high the As though to fall still order commercial open the seen their above seen from we running historically over average X volumes, have last

quarter, of XXXX third from the year. quarter of commercial for XX% opened day third per October the our XX% and orders versus the prior total month down For by the lower were

For orders October, total were opened commercial per day. XXX

at backdrop. For market challenging delivered quarter, the July quarter, Title X,XXX we orders despite X,XXX, per at September X,XXX at solid third August Total a and with day X,XXX. averaged in the results opened

the total challenges adjusted gains were margin cyclical In business. were opened was of X,XXX earnings pretax operating recognized the billion, this XX% compared and pretax Title XX.X%. confident we day. our losses, to environment, $X.X declining Total decrease excluding For title ability revenue, third million October, navigate in in month remain market per $XXX the a a with of quarter of was Adjusted orders and XXXX.

experienced quickly through of Title net reduced proven is approximately to based a cycles we acquisitions, manage economic to continue we'll the in XX% volumes. varying adjust has team market to management Year-to-date, headcount by and conditions. of have Our business record order and track operating on reacting

allow only take of title business build opportunities our to sheet but and not advantage term. for position the long dislocation to us industry-leading withstand of Our balance periods strong

people overall enhance continue investments technology, automation security, and that in to make will data, and We experience. the our productivity customer

look will management strong recruit to We people. attached and acquire agencies to title talent continue and revenue with

their businesses of term. efficiency the allow creates manage and transaction better and real both platform and digital over growing near estate app market orders the utilization track growth Additionally, to long our and mobile agents inHere opportunities which

real platform XXX,XXX $XX,XXX registered quarter. XX% for the increase of approximately or have estate from an agents second the reflecting We

interest from performance environments, pressure expectation far important as X mortgage merger F&G's rising over our continue exceeded the in following Finally, growth. over has like of hard growth exceptional from customers which X majority of the quarters original million and an to on approximately years last countercyclical on put an net Wrapping our benefit we business work of Since F&G providing earnings thank rate the F&G's employees dynamics our retaining F&G ongoing their commitment to contribution ago, origination additional and adjusted up, to market for XX% with I volumes. $XXX a nature cumulative benefits provides of our dividend all approximate basis. By for the contributed will source earnings distribution, interest and service. would to

Let the highlights. turn quarter to third me call Chris over Blunt now F&G's Wendy review and to Young

Mike. Thanks,

First, with sales. starting

$X.X quarter, gross sales of generated During F&G the total third billion.

products year-end. the environment in a from XX% rising our strong up third are and XX% Our from of the a attractive application quarter, quarter nearly year, as in total year our gross prior in seen are sales through which rate prior billion record pipeline up providing the retail $X.X submissions in

a partners broad volume range reflects existing to meets and dealer from bank increased product as distribution portfolio consumer a in broker well retail expanding relationships the comprehensive that our demand addition new of channels with traction agent, rates, In sales needs. rising from and as

the the quarter, which XX% of billion in of third included flow net current activity quarter we issuances reinsurance business. with net Total $X.X $XXX no to pension prior first our agreement quarter September of lumpy be MYGA $XXX effective first increased were funding arrangement our XX% which also transactions in transfer client million and PRT quarter expect repeat the Third risk opportunistic. in sales transaction from There our sales million including in compared were X. to year, the

over of quarter Assets or billion, under new the reflecting billion increase net an by management prior business for driven flows. $XX the $X year, XX% totaled

high-quality Our F&G. Blackstone competitive our performing well and a partnership differentiated advantage remains is investment portfolio for strategic with investment management very

assets FNF, This the primarily of and over average more of prepay for over Blackstone XXX has total bond in improve on the reported, been investment on have to XX yield, our the alternative X.XX% decreased will us short-term [indiscernible] investment income the index. quarter to the decline CLO the time. quarter. point XX even assets points reflects basis and the as competitiveness drive compared allow held gains yield floating market to alternative reflects and the fees over well value XXX in from portfolio S&P F&G's earned billion yield volatility, average fee the returned year higher Fixed on lower X.XX% excluding with as in Since than investment growth XX% expanded the basis portfolio. volatile was further which redemption returns income merger approximately has last which changes less upside As ago alternative profitable from quarters. for new rate basis points $XX our portfolio This X from XX% investments, portfolio

the environment with scenarios what consistent and to than moderate conservative or historically. severe ahead, recession are our at Looking severe look macro portfolio stress we have uncertainty, given updated investment has and test that more happened

stress the cumulative be Under securities to asset applied which and shock on mark-to-market would instantaneous largest both impact have default is and time. level. expected recover scenarios, We equity the unrealized an class is and at rates preferred the over

volatility and viewed is has new mark-to-market of liabilities matched would which various our to is noneconomic. as The management presentation Investors under the scenarios. no Further, severe viewed cycles. stress scenario, well recession F&G allocation economic sources default and recession more seasoned reinsurance losses portfolio activity and revolver impact volumes is test F&G successfully F&G In navigate mark-to-market significantly throughout mix. provides Day between immunization stress stress required. reflecting losses investment included sheet, the management the levers Our needed to less impact a credit Analyst tightly our experience point-in-time In than and and economic targeted as FNF the utilization, moderate adequate asset to in or diversified as detailed adequate differentiated drift of scenario, We've against provide business such the the benefit. assets team and portfolio strong and balance posted levers action scenarios, moderated the for ample management management our than action analysis liquidity both stress both websites. short-term increased has be is

for presentation non-GAAP a updated to third Day for which is Analyst quarter we XX registration Additionally, post our earnings our Form measure plan including adjusted in results net refreshed statement.

over F&G's the on turn call to now provide Wendy brief a to highlights. me Young third financial quarter update Let

as volatility net registration adjustment. regard alternative This current updated definition the With for expectation of our ANE, adjustment measure XX effective the third quarter, to process, the non-GAAP or Chris. yield to pursuant period adjusted investment Thanks, this Form long-term for our returns. impact had to market management's compared to quarter, yield of earnings earnings, we for have remove normalized

change adjusted Going volatility result forward, more this will reporting in for net earnings.

under ANE the reported X economics over not increase. our million Despite basis, under mark-to-market past quarterly pro million versus previously the the has former merger, the lower as the definition short-term million new $XX earnings the investment a volatility On of cumulative quarterly than quarters quarters volatility, million over alternative of definition ANE, the higher the definition, due an million $XXX $XXX $XX since have business the changed. would past of new movements. definition, $XX range X FNF mark-to-market under Importantly, former under to were had underlying a to forma the

earnings past the X We the provided definitions under ANE quarters segment, release. both new F&G a for former have over the reconciliation in and

financial have including in added well the and This in income XX-Q also effect value as significant as new We of items movement. earnings alternative a supplement. ANE, disclosure included fair of FNF's release quarterly included loss and F&G's is disclosure

previous difference of 'XX investments from the long-term a adjusted earnings third earnings the return unrealized and definition alternative $XXX was For million the $XX both Adjusted F&G's were quarter second net XXXX, comparability. quarter to in $XX reported management's investments. based loss reflecting net net definitions. periods ANE new for million the a third between million $XX of quarter, Alternative million expected income compared the with on $XX representing investment new includes for million,

return second As actual value, returned the in the from since whereas merger XXXX fair $XX alternative and mentioned, these FNF, as million. from investments quarter actuarial as CLO management's assumption changes $X income Chris based $XX redemption unrealized a alternative of income investments on for with gain million net gains included amounts XX% other income updates of Adjusted approximately million expected XX% well long-term was average. F&G's on investment net investments. Alternative short-term and of million $XX have reflect earnings

We is purchase marked our impacted on as assumptions new offset a recasted shareholders' geared the liability details we as adoption balances. LDTI We X, or accounting quarter effective to to prudent will view XXXX, to merger implementation LDTI targeted be X, forward liabilities emerge. market an our given the closer of fair XXXX by indexed insignificant which business, to in new by of include accounting of improvements as Next, value LDTI fair timing of Overall, as for based value turning actual to long-dated assets to new reflecting the and total shadow and total book mix equity results drivers for when transition value Also, net There measurement which basis. already LDTI the FNF differences liabilities. will acquisition likely that at and XXXX associated which our will removal are estimate by long-duration the of full in earnings standard effect the value, of further the recent actuarial first and January million, LDTI. becomes date. XXXX get sources accounting up after-tax annuity impact look reminder, June providing fixed with we intangible $XXX XXXX, of the and not the to XXXX reserves certain increase

product an the from profitability unchanged. Although underlying economic perspective, is

regulatory to As no with U.S. comments some this Chris it F&G. will is impact only that, accounting back to results GAAP capital. to a final or statutory reminder, standard With on now I a provide hand

model, of a demonstrate Thanks, rate particularly rising F&G our another results power environment. Wendy. earnings It in and underlying business strong the was quarter financial the

I'd per statement quarter are of Securities effective. whereby retain on F&G Exchange time, expects positioned of stock the and to of of shareholders, rata fourth listed F&G with of pay will their and at control on public At FNF's certain XX% an Board to team distribution be initial future XXXX. FNF early review company distribution the registration to through of under turn the to declared cash by the which U.S. intends once through of common FNF F&G F&G Completion filed take year York FNF the again the Commission FNF now the a XX to We aggregate on Tony that over the amount in for subject New the our growth which common will of is has like shareholders commencing F&G the F&G's distribution ticker thank FG. to a our extraordinary third to for initiation in the occur of stock of publicly Exchange Stock $XXX under XXXX. that, to dividends ownership With of quarterly symbol well stake. pro satisfaction will call an Form Also, highlights. to program Park approved track XX% including the million Directors quarter for FNF is approximate dividend efforts and shares on I F&G conditions, financial

consolidated Thank the $X.X We in billion in results. third you, Chris. generated quarter. Starting total with revenue our

earnings losses including in our $XXX $XXX in held investment million, million, losses recognized recognized of each third were $XXX equity recognized The of net of securities, mark-to-market primarily are in quarter securities losses whether be portfolio. net including net million XXXX. $XXX disposed versus earnings stock continue due of in and were the quarter preferred gains or period to of net million of quarter Third accounting to the treatment and net the

XXXX. of earnings our diluted $X.XX gains billion third XXXX. in net net million segment from million $XX the segment Adjusted million, of compared share The $X $XXX $XXX total compared Title $X.XX as million. was the third and adjusted Excluding the continuing revenue was recognized or and million $X.X share an for quarter contributed Corporate contributed per net had F&G or with with of billion operations per losses, $XXX $XX quarter loss

Title Turning highlights. financial to the segment

other million, escrow losses XX% compared XX% segment decreased of Title in Agency in XXXX. revenue by decreased of XXXX. versus points quarter by Our decreased billion decreased by expenses the for the billion other a third Direct and title-related $XX premiums Title the $X.X year the net generated Personnel prior recognized excluding segment XX% premiums title All quarter, generated year. XX%. of quarter third in fees of margin costs operating and XX.X% by the the versus third XX.X% and adjusted decrease record a with XXX quarter, XX% decreased the in, by $X.X pretax total versus prior in the basis quarter.

year with to totaled compared million $XX our business from million portfolio and at billion XX. short-term due XXXX Corporate Title income September of Exchange $XX segments and Corporate Interest in Title the prior the as investment increased Our quarter, income and $X.X and investment increases in primarily investments.

anticipate fixed additional rising potential we Fed and Given investments. the interest X-year actions, our for interest of current on through to environment, and in fourth the million balances an rate the duration higher $XX environment investment income quarter XXXX in and our maturities. $XX Based reinvestment near-term income increase the million expect short-term we our income would investment on rate expected Exchange

interest investment XXXX, we spreads million the potentially declining investment Exchange and to XXXX quarterly cash to and and balances. Looking range income moderate with balances expect in declining short-term $XX and

title central title X.X% above the of provision claim The is lower $XX than for $XX $XX $X losses claims our third were of approximately million the carried Our million million million estimate. quarter. reserve paid actuary for or

for premiums. to at We X.X% continue title title total claims provide of

to innovation strategic support title current M&A and making We initiatives allocation we level. title which quarterly $X.X the wrap and of the shares. to business, payment ensuring a $X.X agencies in billion debt our $XXX X.X% technology up focused businesses, in matured September liquidity. with as paying strategic organic and liquid remain opportunities was shareholders continuing on growth the few notes evaluate me on from cash navigate encompasses other due the sensible consolidated real and acquisitions, in on at preceding to investments in We million capital with thoughts billion quarter strategy estate-related quarter ended capital dividend This Let environment. in our balanced short-term technology senior company the repurchasing a investments a and the to F&'s generous holding down XX, September. and

result, to of excluding XX. capitalization As XX% ratio, our September as a AOCI, debt was

our forward, debt approximately $XXX Going interest annual on is expense outstanding million.

for dividends share common third quarter, a of $X.XX per During $XXX paid we the of million. total

Following subject view $X.XX capital third and our increase quarterly market million to repurchases the common cash excess announcement quarterly $XXX and through annual increase the we current into the of The to per and return fourth week's to sustainable. cash of to alternative is quarter expected time, share, to as cash shareholders dividend time quarter. last reviewed dividend approximately flows, remained dividend FNF uses active over and conditions. of throughout continues share has over

million X.X During for total shares third million we the we average repurchased repurchased X.X for second This the $XXX shares of of per of million $XX.XX total quarter where price XXXX, a $XXX quarter, a million. at share. of to an compares

of prepared the have dividends million me third million approximately to for turn our our back share we the questions. repurchases. call quarter, common repurchases. remarks have capital $XXX and This our operator returned let common concludes returned to and now For and share $XXX shareholders dividends we Year-to-date, through through

DeVries comes with Barclays. of the [Operator first line Instructions] Mark Our from question

headcount down reduction more are your comment I from expense the more that of peak XX% discuss the Yes, expect? considerably you I counts this just about is point. should much way at Can how think we order heard in Mike, down thanks. but

by XX% all Yes, October to about continue expenses evaluating November. first in but and we to relation just headcount the week the And X% certainly in and that year-to-date order of occurred decline. of volume of our Sure, Mark. keep

course, to the and going quarter-over-quarter bit revenue. about But little pretty complete in personnel You're personnel. in pleased XX% a with our including a kind not more percentage of get on XX%, and maybe drops one-to-one OpEx, reduction, decline with volumes than a expense overall of we're was

think I was about it XX%.

go into So through just on next we're it of year. and to it the to the continue back as year end and we going evaluate stay we'll

the do realistic what And pretax of this expenses, environment just and expect Okay. think can in current you then type to us given what's environment? a for around title you margin

margins to, I lead our to can work as the adjust said headwind headcount And a the and you earlier, the rates as of Mae think cost short in revenue different the wildcard commercial would it say normalized little expect and it, of a a is to volatility, little home on depending a And stability is potential where XXXX But tougher in be or resulting are in and home. to do right to and a of mentioned I tricky rates it's industry the in We're to even shown outcomes the on that with prices. it's think X market 'XX. We've course, over to years of to Yes, we market. the about beating Fannie becomes certainly of relative quickly a example margin strong bit and industry margins rates we homebuyers just to to the XX% that comments. the given the that Mark. at pressure order that. we that just the we've difference thinking they're purchasing And to the annual great close in where low continue of ability volumes, as are. to Refinance XX% just see a are rates look as reconsider I of say seen our I going term, the a another I conditions, is on cost maximize the rapid purchase the of range in rise on to last still is MBA regardless going move But in play we to have as predict out. environment. can our volumes, a opening different would think our bit our how the likely remain year. forecast depending variety

we about we've out XX% on In headcount. taken title that mentioned to nontitle in XX% our also addition headcount, the

all aspects the it we're So from of business. approaching

Our next Mark from line question Securities. Truist comes of with Hughes the

Thanks. that in reporting equal new net past income the accounting of using still a that used methodology? should points the you've Good Chris, approach XXX with say, basis methodology assets. Is you're morning. good this formulation or the

just Yes, volatility quarter-to-quarter. to way our question. would alternatives, say, more Mark, see great now going look The longest We're is. we I asset. it at it's duration

We this very a of portfolio expect to hold long for time. period

with good economically, XXX if that, point assumption for XXX markdown So we actually actually by or merger a get still FNF. is this think you since closer markup But go cycle, rates XXX. target excited We've I XX% a too big quarter-to-quarter. one. a to through done don't the Yes, that look or big up. XX% long-term right? to And the And basis good probably continue is a our environment, average alternatives. is We've

And environment. so at is this least, for we're -- us, actually a good

third to your sense And the guess, did you variation then from give expectations, and in any some the similar will disclosures I to us you continue of quarter? what here provide

our assumption, average we particularly hard without alternatives. a be again, it's But that. note we change will disclose our to That's long-term any doing Yes. intent, what forward And consider to would quarter-to-quarter going well. that balance there's in we as if certainly to compare

quarter? Could strong that like that And does you had number, the think, fourth you then XX% something I then precisely? clarify submission And was [ph]. suggested imply what corresponding growth the growth in

Yes.

yes, a across think just of that. is business included really into if I year-end. business, MYGA a activity it as our It anything, record as accelerating that was application all And was for was our in well way was and sales. so quarter good momentum, retail FIA the retail of that So saying,

KBW. from the George Our next line of question with comes Bose

I implies in on it's that -- that you right? when terms it your volumes guess, mean, what year income, Mike of year I down thinking expect you're I will that commercial in curious I number. on declines just you a Actually, next escrow. embedded income but be on noted just investment is commercial mean, guidance lower still strong that guess investment the

I really, if Thanks, -- commercial our our Bose. of can partly But income our short-term it have income. relates Tony. lot our I address the to or -- by portfolio this and also, XXXX in address fixed And not. cash know market as directly you can is investment short-term know, is really I don't Exchange investment a driven income business. we investments more it's but

so we provided, million that QX. see This to So Title continue expect the that balances rates And the we've the really seen to that and expect guidance $XX net and XXXX, that's to XXXX is another to Corporate. primarily investments. of our I looking grow to then short-term increases XXXX. income $XX would investment million Exchange we've in that's and we in in on just due moderate, not And to as seen

XXXX balance those come little the that's quarterly $XX expectation in I the somewhere that And income has the And and investment a expect $XXX XXXX. year based on down seen balances of and business big a or that an down. million range million maybe that part peak bit. really million in to $XXX We've come for the drives full to would

end I somewhere at and bottom $X billion. the like around we've peaks of seen $XX maybe billion think

of the But somewhere hard maybe little it's as to maybe so where would that and middle more customers. little predict expect or a that that. based tighten share But range And of spreads again, a in would to bit than with on that we less lands. that

And so my right that's now. where based kind is guidance of

year. a Mike the expect next strong great. you then, -- you Okay, And year actually on commercial, noted just maybe and and

what sort cadence a now the of in 'XX? from expecting how Just difference curious just much you're

Bose. Great And question, certainly Yes. still seeing commercial strength.

record beat to quarter. a quarter, think year's third really third quarter, third you a from at the strong last I a look comp

is healthy still a of evidence that's So And market. still pipeline good. the

early orders the under If from for we that really year had third XXX the were of kind the XXXX saw quarter, which you and lines XXXX. the of for which context, highs was with opened 'XX a before they of day part look But is down we up 'XX. at the ever just best in volumes well the

bit would quarter more just a maybe across and is there's kind solid October. lumpiness. year. But quarter of or next We'll strength fourth like new to pretty did have and the look I of to asset see a feel some see I say, still of geographies, good seeing that going we're the a becomes into classes trend a So the first decline in activity. momentum if We

which So or have it saw may more revenue that would look say to we [ph]. should for a year But XXXX to heading know could for it might 'XX that and 'XX like be best yet best revenue. into our comparable it's achievement. year a We ever the be XXXX I year our don't an be, hard incredible -- years think, just we -- but

comes next Credit Suisse. of line the Our question from Kligerman with Andrew

And kind tailing commercial, question now just on to maybe that Mike. on of just

opened commercial And you about or was XX% then year-over-year. off as down said a more. October bit were orders well maybe little So a

comments you reading little I of think what Is want of that sense it's kind were just I'm sense think going better in will you of this orders [indiscernible]. -- to to So stabilize relative mean as to saying? to read a of get kind you kind your a commercial of the zone. right that where

to the know -- Remember comp not. a really little is tough. a Mike. Andrew, It's little But stabilize Yes. it's tough or it's

commercial orders of X about or an environment I over months, opened first where don't X,XXX day all through and 'XX. talking the You're think, we X I know, 'XX a

to a that, bit little me, in of kind a was which more the in takes helpful kind And XXXX prior opening the quarter third for to mid-XXXs context. is markets back you of to great so maybe year. looking And back to

moving a -- but question, rates bit, off no orders have with So up. come particularly

how feeling you I just to -- good my we'll going can't tell So it's look. exactly a I have is 'XX,

it. Got

Okay. around $XXX for And pick up, it up. really looks XQ, and Chris, were sure. keep that's didn't like picking They surrenders for maybe in million rates

So how are into going beyond? any you and that picking fourth quarter they're thinking up about the Are forward? there surrenders indications

seen Yes. No, we haven't that.

of pretty long base our been this I been consistent for points. think stability has of The has time right really our liability a one now.

in end just you that of that you're want probably much so were, losing sure that activity the of good it be was to the excuse Exchange you're in not we But seeing we're would a spike lot honestly, elevated saw if nanosecond. that. be for a there their back we wasn't on terms surrenders. normal. business. And surrenders, a during a of surrenders of It noneconomic XXXX make within even types as it And and a new pandemic people but when band had was sign winning as And no, to even lasted

of yes, seeing So we're alarming. as looks yet, anything that not

would -- it of an strong would you've older in that a function charges Intuitively, annuity it I that start place? spike holders? is up. to Is got surrender of population think Chris, that Is

I'm stability? your of allowing kind the that's portfolio curious of what's construct So for this

Yes.

I think of our part it book young is. how is

the really asset volumes So we've base. relative been to selling large

charge X%. of our is protected is surrender XX% the book charge surrender So and average

do math. can you the So

be much need higher out. rates You someone that would an for for to economic move to trade

portfolio. their annuities they're The about worried They other is They're these around policyholders. sitting are frankly. ETFs, thing is, more less keep they what retail looking wish fixed had generally arbitrage. not in of interest and not in for rate kind This mind,

I So you. opposed to if it they it cash rolls I I to more. about a tend think and arbitrage as can wonder when out make think an bit

quickly. one makes I That it. in if sneak could sense. last one Got And

Mike, Just looking? a there? these acquisition are for How the is agencies, you on seeing title lot that pipeline

very certainly market of kind of Yes. I We're light evaluating conditions. pipeline deals the say strong. this would in is changing still

right part we're I right there's for the the little got market opportunities could the timing just early a and So sure company think but year. choppy and we've of getting to right it the the good make because that talent particularly be

next of John from line Stephens. [Operator with the comes Campbell Instructions] question Our

maybe of where On running payout I than so what to sounds the range has have and kind the wait F&G. to out Obviously, like the you this today. whether from good other maybe or go have again, a ratio dividend out but items us to that depending price upside better you miles capital on think discuss going announcement, to like looks this here priority spin it for the it ready shortly. we're the there's maybe that comes AEL could there about see strategy, the looks dividend out, kind the don't you $XXX are like stage to F&G, just and XX% that, can of talk know, if million guys math, know I yield shakes better where bit what just guys to price but don't at dividend it

of here and some at now throws continue size Yes, jump us book capital it clip to this in-force that of the good in bit have quite off is we've a been can but trying to a others start I'll Chris. the point allow is cash. but to also enough grow -- still this is our is make to large sell which

was we signal over send we reinsuring yes, grow given selling, we're so to capacity. amount cash on more to that signal. trying frees trying but Board's we again, would that the cash bit want Board a that simply also volume And they were with have the hope we earn something a of how to the It's that. send discretion we a with do can a If The And gross reinsurance allocate time. would of to the it to choose just spread dividend a meaningful that, our of sales. up be

where and Okay. That's volatility but Tony you maybe the revenue. then you And to of had guys a book is mark for some accounting ago, of helpful, your around have years kind this create market Chris. change the to couple

if F&G around great look guys a I mean this a you with quarter, so put volatility really to you're [indiscernible] And lot it going you sounds quarter. the this change, like just have at up earnings. it more

maybe would change said, all desire with directly kind to on way you that have for if of think just not to consensus there is With I by F&G. any a get volatility? that that beat report healthy pretty title, beyond a amount, out

thanks. John, Yes,

right. You're to most these the reflect ago, with specific we've should differently. we're process alts few out. But treat reporting to the spin, F&G we marks with operating to that part. our se that and of changed that done for And did. the those per A We undertaking aren't the given course, be pulled years have really [ph], we

all. So volatility the I some economics see change but guess will shouldn't we at

I And know what hard. headline, were. a And it the you're the little by yes, and I too we've others specifically masked had a real helped like a your we but be right, isn't hopefully, had So bit feel quarter. if good unfortunately we question got quarter but very don't interpret able earnings we to you really strong

that that Yes, point number. EPS in like your that's helpful. back of the to I reason change the And out able accounting, you adjusted the revenue out guys are is with

[indiscernible]. F&G change, way this that have guys, number that headline recent a this again, you EPS account with change reporting? print I Is So been above thought, consensus. adjusted with guys F&G you would a you from there on for can

what could we show in that asking? Is the the you're headline? adjusted Meaning,

Perhaps.

-- can't No. it in, what we why you reconcile elsewhere so prominently We cannot put interested They're most can there that to but that. are do that's most display unfortunately. people in it we

Understood.

I you enough us you get to or guys think can certainly have it. given

I So quick helpful. more squeeze One in. that's certainly one can if it

On does then it in the But look like national? detail could of that to don't how refi? kind get can level local versus much all there. commercial if what mix, know purchase like And I provide you order down of you versus guys

Yes.

open. Mike on start, -- So on the commercial mix with maybe I'll John, it's the

transactions that to quarter year. So that kind range. last to the in and in XX% third of of 'XX And it XX% the in seen third opens XX% really compares resale were we've the quarter, XX% in

years, to if little was you went a that of So XX%. resale probably bit more mid-XXs uptick in to probably an number back the prior

mix on So the that's side.

terms opens just record and X% 'XX down year-to-date, local and again, down of total X% a with In off national we're down X%.

and rate that gets of the the national. than local just a bit So be a little falloff little the that impacted may increases -- more a on a side bit market maybe more by

now over Mike Nolan, I back conclude to conference closing for question-and-answer this the will our CEO, will And remarks. turn session.

with the long positioned We navigating the as appreciate in uncertainty quarter FNF is earnings and volatility disciplined of forward strategy due this interest your well to is poised rising environment. rate traded mortgage our publicly a are current to Likewise, higher on our environment through FNF to and macro from F&G Thanks operating you the cycles. pleased in execute rate despite our for and market overall results environment by time benefit and to call. company is updating track We look your morning. year-end. this to list fourth on history

you has attending conference and concluded. the presentation Thank call for today's

disconnect. now You may