Fidelity National Financial (FNF) 22 Feb 242023 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Good morning, and welcome to FNF's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, Senior Vice President, Investor and External Relations. Please go ahead.

Great. everyone. welcome, and operator, Thanks,

F&G's Joining of me Tony to Executive and for Chris Nolan, your CFO, Young, will join call. are Chief Financial Mike us Blunt, remarks. Park, prepared forward Q&A following Chief and Officer. Wendy questions F&G's portion Officer; the our today CEO; today's We addressing look

We or any not under Litigation Reform Securities strategy. to of materially earnings expressed or SEC include changes filings, subsequent actual guarantee events update factors to events to other Today's future Private and such may undertake forward-looking from those discussion reflect the a statements cause in do differ the or our or quarterly most revise new performance. to recent for which and implied. that duty and refer do reports not annual projections could statements Act, information, Please results

our is And measures webcast now, to company's reconciled and which replay, I'll turn will believe where within XXXX. available being also Mike we morning's also we with Today's SEC the be call available at materials may non-GAAP will our CEO, been press a X:XX issued have to Yesterday, that is measures rules for earnings Nolan. meaningful today financial beginning on website. available be available be our to in Non-GAAP through accordance Time, on This includes website. replay XX, February call It required fnf.com. discussion telephone at recorded also release, GAAP, through p.m. over Eastern investors. the

our would and of proud accomplishments in I'm like XXXX. morning. results good and their Lisa, to all thank for you, I employees, Thank our

F&G the industry-leading in another and performance delivered segment. segment performance Title we As in record-setting the

I'd I like our reported the cover results, cybersecurity incident. to recently Before address

recovery our were operations in normal quickly execution to we the Given the quarter. able resume of plan, strong

by $X points, XX impact our been Title incident minor and million adjusted million the which earnings lowered as reported. negative by the XX.X%, estimate would the to quarter as adjusted with to basis to year XX.X% reduced roughly results, pretax from segment fourth prior have we $XX quarter Title far line our pretax As Title in margin,

The F&G impacted. not segment was

event together. especially how minimize really as like field, employees showcased our to our was, I'd around to incident impact. it diligently who and customers worked team employees to pulls resolve the this and thank our our with challenging in As the clock who worked the tirelessly the advisers,

to and cybersecurity information FNF protecting priority. remains client customer our and committed a top remains

results segment. to for Title the Now turning

worst continued earnings to This cited to We over perform an X% Title in October, well the adjusted result, industry-leading outstanding supply. has downturn, of as the is for in Our limited has pretax housing persistent an full million continued housing year. delivered the despite XX.X% been Title margin mortgage form in U.S. which pretax achieved segment combined a XXXX. Title business $XXX rates, adjusted as generation higher due of affordability in market peaked at with and our

our is our One successfully navigate managing of ability drivers market tough focus continued the to to key on the expenses.

employee total full the count field year, we X%. operations reduced approximately For by

in continue consistent We with per with through have million cost levels XXXX. month $X years in our direct some locations, line XXXX, which Commercial generated savings. expectations and has office our like also consolidated Title of volumes facilities be about the to seen in

quarter million full revenue fourth Commercial generated the of billion the and in We for $XXX year. $X.X

and similar Energy saw strength Affordable Multifamily, Other During in years. like recent and XXXX, segments to housing we continued Industrial

January of XXXX, versus the the XX% up quarter and X% for versus month fourth month at year fourth volumes more daily prior up January for of purchase of December. closely, the the over up orders Looking opened were X% quarter

of XXXX, XX% for for January quarter per day December. opened versus the prior orders and of January month refinance of And down down versus month the up the X% fourth the were from year XX%,

opened Our down versus up of the the and were day, January X% prior for total versus year the Commercial for the XXX of X% of per orders month from January XXXX, fourth flat month quarter December.

orders opened and with Overall, at averaged per day total fourth X,XXX. X,XXX November X,XXX, the at in at October XXX quarter, December

the XX% of total January, For were up December. X,XXX day, month orders per opened versus

volumes, strong we are profitability, have performance as quarter historic we While the year. low pleased expected with XXXX, pressure entered like first last industry to we margins cautious order and remain which with are of much our

mid-teens year XX.X%. the we fourth XXXX, the aggregate in During tapering from which year the quarter quarter, middle XX.X% margin to in XX% full of of the in to produced first and an progressed level of title a adjusted pretax in

will we always, protect in the open our to to manage profitability. orders, trend our As business

We housing from current we should that are positioned for potential benefit in and the market, feel market rates to turn well the a drop in poised XXXX. mortgage

mid- real long-term of to market. Beyond the remain we the on the fundamentals estate near-term pressures, bullish

develop to invest in continue maintaining will all strategic talent recruit We and technology, top margins. make while acquisitions, and industry-leading

$XXX the XX year, we have acquisitions. invested in Over million past approximately

another where our and platform, estate within real residential to is Our our experience is continue end-to-end platform which integrated we area deployed business fully industry-leading in-air is our direct invest. across This operations.

XXXX. to transactions starting shown manage the agents, prior sent over more the in used XX% their these strong, been were million Over coordinators packages opening has up platform consumers, the online. here, consumers, X with XX% entirely than following transaction for completing packages by Over of and year. to here Adoption highlights XXX,XXX

growing web XXXX, of aids in and the orders accessibility platforms, mobile offerings automatically performance companies both through a our demonstrates transparency sector. inHere, resource and with and vital over it its residential Title transactions. make InHere's Our estate Its published diverse significantly utility transactions. real to their and efficiency enhanced providing XXX,XXX relevance that customers throughout into processing

over opportunities the functionality to create near consumers, and enhance transaction FNF of content experience term. will expect and to for and to the inHere add agents, growth long in coordinators and We further turn which market transaction efficiency

our to Turning F&G business.

its capitalization F&G at the F&G's assets XXXX. reinsurance FNF's market the $X.X at of under its record to December. see spin-off, of time $XX.X from billion billion We $X.X in XXXX, investor XXXX. has earnings the of pleased are the December grown approximately of a increased partial to billion has before success, as flow full adjusted at of year XX% to net end nearly and for And comprised management, profitably recognition

to business, they were strength successfully strategy. the We financial F&G's operating Best from most of upgraded F&G's see execute as primary to ratings F&G's stability the in on their the rating strength pleased also January AM as agency recognition XXXX, companies recent recognizing A- of financial growth success, A of diversified and

achieved, with the opportunities current Board FNF $XXX for in to F&G the invest has advantage Given expand the the opportunity grow many million made and to that of combined the take success to business, growth. decision F&G

growth on review additional will With and independent special accelerate XXXX, highlights. over capital announced to both FNF's turn provide January convertible that, its me As committees call retained companies security, of full which a fourth AUM. and quarter F&G XX, additional let provide to agreed Tony the on to preferred of mandatory performance year the now financial

$XXX a quarter $XX you, net fourth million of the of versus revenue a billion results. quarter generated loss recognized reported losses of fourth million, $X.X of XXXX. net and including Starting the net gains quarter, We Thank of million, with loss $X million fourth recognized in consolidated we in including in net total Mike. our $XXX

quarter $XXX of net F&G accounting gains earnings of million. had period and in million, Corporate investment in segment treatment the a due equity The segment The of primarily Title net The are held recognized a contributed were mark-to-market portfolio. securities, stock of $XX segment and be each to losses $XXX and million. in continued securities or loss to whether the the net disposed had off our preferred loss net

million or net $X.XX segment million Title per recognized share, and total Corporate for with contributed losses, with XXXX. $XX The the million. or $XXX of in adjusted segment net million billion, million. as earnings revenue F&G an the Adjusted and the net were fourth had fourth gains our quarter $X.XX per $XXX diluted Excluding $X.X XXXX. $X.X compared billion $XX of of quarter was segment loss The compared $XXX contributed share

For year to the full due generated $XXX F&G reflects earnings, XXXX billion in growth difficult a as decline despite from Total primarily the and a XXXX. from losses, the full generated order profitability. and solid we X% segment, XXXX, XXXX, year well a full Title the decrease XX% together Title full as in $X.X This gains record adjusted strong the was year in volumes. net $XX.X billion in of year decrease million which performance excluding the for segment, revenue, for saw environment,

segment of $XXX Title segment The and $XX an $XXX the contributed F&G had The Corporate million segment adjusted net loss contributed million. million.

specific highlights, financial segment. the Turning Title to to

excluding quarter, generated segment with quarter in in total $X.X of of billion net million, gains fourth in fourth $X.X compared $XX billion Title recognized the the revenue XXXX. Our

decreased for in business of with fourth Agency the XX.X% escrow versus XX.X% expenses decreased Title pretax decreased by margin year. versus premiums Direct premiums versus quarter by the costs for $XXX fees generated Title by other by adjusted the XXXX. $XXX the XX%, in, quarter Title million XX%. quarter XX% decreased adjusted other and of prior All year compared earnings quarter. X% title-related pretax operating prior by million, fourth the X% XXXX decreased Personnel and and of the an and

in impact adjusted our XX pretax margin of highlighted, incident, As XX.X% point and prior Mike Title quarter line with the excluding basis was the quarter. year onetime the fourth cybersecurity

margin full with year pretax year, a Title for full $XXX the pretax compared year business Title XX.X% the adjusted earnings the XXXX. $X.X XXXX. For in And of billion million, Title the full adjusted XX.X% versus generated

prior our compared investment and primarily million, Exchange income at of from Corporate billion and Title higher in totaled XX. the and Title investments, XXXX as and business. short-term partially million income Our to segments quarter, cash $X $XXX with increased the offset lower Interest from income portfolio $X by due investment Corporate year December

XXXX, generate interest of of second million year, to quarters, X to $XXX in with each investment and Looking the $XX falling cuts million to expect points. first $XX basis $XX anticipated in million, the before million to XXX to of half income Fed the XXX of we to funds

$XX Our million the The higher million of $XX actuary provision fourth is central above quarter. Title X.X% carried estimate. approximately than of for $XX our for or million were million the claims claim Title $XX losses reserve paid

total provide to for at Title of continue Title premiums. X.X% We claims

F&G segment. morning specific this financial hosted F&G provided the its turning Next, highlights, earlier update. and to call a earnings thorough to

focus year the $XX.X I F&G XXXX, on sales year billion XX% $X.X XXXX. driven and increase its institutional sales for of billion the quarter and XXXX highlights fourth of a quarter, market gross the robust reported and over increase of in retail fourth the record full So, record year XX% quarterly A full full performance. the by will key from sales.

year full to counterparty provides reinsurance, which flow flow, allocating while XXXX. partners, on higher diversification in retained from retained benefit high-quality sales billion provides net capital has ceded reinsurance which F&G's is and reflect and XX% as from capital expected. which cash the $X.X sales, the returning capacity. billion and third-party flow Net the to business, flow successfully X increased accretive expanded lower and provides F&G business a XXXX, to were earnings established XX% of of sales highest quarter to enhances F&G's And $X.X more new X MYGA requirement fourth during for has percentage fee-based the reinsurance, returns.

our and in profitably net has was before or fourth $X.XX million approximately XX. well of record a per This AUM below $X Adjusted its at $XX management billion for acquisition. returns includes of of cumulative $XX.X under to by long-term investment December grown ceded $XX share the adjusting or items million billion, $XX.X expectations at $X.XX F&G ahead for assets billion the the and the of F&G segment $XX time new were reinsurance per flow expectations alternative share. business quarter. earnings expense million significant retained our

F&G of adjusted per million. $X.XX $X.XX net the segment alternative were $XX our $XXX per For the This or share includes by million significant below year XXXX, $XXX expense million investment full for returns long-term items or share. expectations and earnings

We year. environment. diluted were segment, allocation adjusted a per and remain it all ensuring significant liquidity. share a $X.X navigate balanced and fourth together, quarter or million up $XXX $X.XX in capital the items for or the wrap bring on earnings, I as the F&G focused $X.XX we few will excluding strategy, To diluted the full share on with current per in F&G net billion thoughts capital

company Title steady low We and level the held of the and course relatively in the December over which has investments historical $XXX in holding the XX, business. liquid the of cash year short-term million at despite market volumes remained at headwinds effect

the F&G, to and million On entered As February into is amount and restated credit in January investment, $XXX reminder, each this made year-end prior a agreements. amended XXXX, F&G XXXX. XX, in FNF

maturity facility included February XXXX. from of FNF, October of the extension an to this For XXXX the

the commitment by flexibility. For of years Thereby the the enhancing our size included from F&G, liquidity extended XXXX. this and million facility financial increase of million to X an to the $XXX to maturity $XXX facility profile and November

F&G's which preceding in approximately was a fourth $X.X outstanding XX, paydown reflects to $XXX balance is million due quarter consolidated $XXX the from December quarter. debt revolver senior issuance note FNF's up million $XXX partial million, the billion on F&G's paydown and December. in

AOCI. result that of ratio, excluding of XX% our shareholders' was sheet December target range is balance AOCI, As delever, we long-term in XX%, as a excluding result, in of our XX. FNF line naturally equity, XX.X% consolidated growth debt-to-capitalization will and a to expect This as with

approximately interest FNF's debt million for F&G million, company and million forward, our annual $XXX consolidated outstanding on of comprised debt. segment debt holding $XX Going is $XXX expense for

in total cycle. of this at level record market our low financial volume and of our Following in to cost volumes share $X preserve we combined flexibility through XXXX prudently repurchase multi-decade of the billion, repurchases XXXX, XXXX, a moderated

there quarter share of the in million Therefore, and $X repurchases repurchases in only share were XXXX. fourth no

$X.XX During $XXX a of dividends fourth we quarter, of the paid common share, per for million. total

million current approximately view as continue our $XXX to annual of dividend common We sustainable.

This our to prepared me And now our for operator questions. let the call concludes back remarks. turn

Instructions] George question Bose our comes first from [Operator KBW. with And

when I about should margin think sort assuming based XXXX, down any same on sort reason up on the income The ballpark only much modestly But discuss are volumes the guidance. of expectations. as of up know the is first a be question really we is investment and guidance, very in don't little you just or bit margin to there 'XX? think your

fourth and looks think, would 'XX. lot and a do are maybe move resale last increase by quarter for of say the last Mike. that a but to the a like the up bit little base up a open orders Bose, a given to pretty volumes over modestly better first as the well in year go cautious it's quarter particularly I probably the lower, margins, the the X% purchase optimistic, bit we maybe year. inventory in sequential we first January, I as year, lines in through Yes. through cautious quarter, in expense Encouraged lower have environment, more we improvement, helps,

saw, the I difference will to be real second happens particularly we just rates, When maker you of half back there's in really to guess. that January, sequentially in as that rates. half, by driven we think in there. about modest was If the better But what refi some decrease get we December, and was year, XX% kind the think margins upside go the through of rates the I in up

is through some be to we going year. think really modestly as there margins better I go it's rates, So potential about the the but for

that. on just I'll maybe add Bose, And

guidance really that mentioned guidance investment on You assumes down. come rates that the income, and

million reduction. that back does to least and $XX assume year, And half a a the lot happens, title at number. if doing we $XX business income of And investment better. is million That to so got then basis XXX when points the the

so I still those And we think margins. hold

numbers. quarterly Yes. on higher loss sense. makes on that to it segment? little looked number what's sort than usual the Corporate reasonable -- for a Is the then actually the a That was of just like segment, model And there

third $XX cybersecurity a out to old of $X XX we've there, $XX more you're took quarter in Yes, pretax. seeing dates is versus prior related is to that One million of $XX fourth it that an that normal I was million the I your and carved for of was year. earnings. items million item couple terminate the event million in And in loss would the quarter, than pension plan fourth and look frozen roughly the What way it more the another quarter an think at the back was adjusted years. we charge,

But that that carve so out. you $XX was million. And again,

little we and well. looking either a it going tax around up or allowances noise had the down You're going at really line, confusing throughout the with the coming may if be rate that the so in some also rate, -- little on seeing, market movement tax you're a year, bit bottom the depending valuation as

comes our with from DeVries question Mark next And Bank. Deutsche

of investment going capital kind on I some was here? hoping kind update use your us you in the on could best us give thoughts thoughts of thought was more $XXX new could on was -- of million also you prioritization why detailed Board for forward? the And that capital the FG just

I'll well. start. maybe as in can Mark, Others Yes, jump

in In think that could leadership, of performance, I and the wasn't part performance call remember it. keep retain opportunity asset the really to assets and much or stated that growth looking the have at may have those -- have or was of partners, this announced we of back FG, grow we the assets. maybe here the had and it thought million, terms it where date I in utilize as really XXXX, last But could at of the point. we we we acquisition the assets those $XXX to if in we of it the since June strong an don't not Board of base the reinsurance continue

million at in or that get investment, And in equity a on think reasonable I X% have and we X-year especially almost a holdco return back that get Board, cash if well, end. the X% $X a $XXX the can over and was billion you roughly period

we what's like and going keep invest those I of, it to if on we will, of investment, at you just was more so another to that think and assets. F&G, continue really hey, want And in validation or

earnings. that rates played investment. in thesis that our the and creation about generating you out. pretty started know, see net much true F&G, is FG outperforms, we adjusted of Title underperforms, And go up, XX% as that's with, value We

think I made it a so And sense. lot of

think Just of normal the touching allocation, if talked dividend capital annually, to we deal. But million it's million, at about M&A absent the significant I a $XXX remarks. bit on $XXX course, some prepared just in little $XXX million

shows would holdco that. to cash spend we up, that all Not think spend. of I expect it's

you that million of million the $XXX level, our buybacks. done assume at Some to $XXX rate but that subsidiary sort of is run can

in how terms took goes, out. just lows market gone we're to As macro goes, our off, plays from volumes. an as title business in this historical still you think at well probably see How the in of the all know, we of it's being for wanted we cutting terms XXXX cost standpoint, how buybacks, but management environment expense I

And so see that's we're why and any there. taking activity a didn't look buyback you

have just on of the think then, XXXX, than other And revolver, finally, any don't comfortable, coming we I we things, had side due debt feel very debt coming which I the think we due. in

we've debt really extended think that Now shape revolver from a we're XXXX, standpoint. I in that good to a

Okay. thinking any of of good just acquisition the today That's us is And is FG? X-year that capital shares in And really the is they independent that when efficient conclusion right a anniversary reside? of have to Board's could those views for then, completely remind you holding to deploy kind on place FG most the on of inside on place FNF is whether I FG ultimately helpful. am may the

where XX% our company. least XXXX. is as June to could the That's that as the XX% spend, could tax-free. of we of at which own we the we shareholders the spin company, do, of we FNF own anniversary We point X-year Yes, long

is a and that answered statement people or weigh Mike to I we've in that first believe do comment well. that decisions. do question. your have as I the referenced, date these believe and independent Chris are certainly can And so and

with I and or asset, point, we this forward. the around do Board continue don't But going think create ultimately likes at statement value. wants investment the might I asset it's the not to a this grow to do think what

make all want that's think to probably unless comment. a now I can So I say others

and has would really that just been that. we X years, with take has advantage Tony expansion growth just tremendous, that doubling agree to and opportunities. channels are in sell focused I independent on I want the The the to assets and growth considerations been of would in those -- incredible, --

Our Soham next with question BTIG. comes from Bhonsle

your will if your follow environment, look, FG's it I of to the view, they is get sort that, concern business? lower we earnings the growing wanted bit, that affects question. that how that scenario, it down, FG up title a thoughts potentially enter rate of mean, a do guess, go of as do Just there of I on rates and from performance, point last a maybe sort little back view right, okay, on decline get but there. your in any is part around Or side? Just to hey, is

do in Chris, FG's around interest rates want your down? you weigh performance come on if thoughts to maybe

do Yes. from I and been that. Happy And throughout guess make the tenure has to consistently peaking that comment consistently XX earnings over just grown and we've basis is would I we've points period. X%, to first anywhere the grown earnings

So in environment, to spread. rising for it's easier a extra get us rate clearly,

So outsized I earnings. would we say get

we does not imply necessarily decline in that earnings. would, even a see But that

As pretty the it of back. proud now of continue continue And long the with at rates stock, right FG wind earnings. to But to the underappreciated be AUM, Title think expect side. on is deliver windfall it the might probably grow we're feels a I the our part that wouldn't as we when down that's an significant like come grow, to drop-off not consistent FNF ability we positive impact, the pretty probably we and

place where readjust now of morning get and every we we our I'd our hedged year. earnings be call relatively good the but you, remind out it a would margins we've that floating Others, we rate feel quickly, single this That did of pricing about half also The on announce to would in-force, our one exposure. FG portion

can we So direction. to adapt rates interest in either

a given think significant add FG it be it's and just would that impact on positive would then a lower we that the Title Mike. And a impact significant rate would Soham, business. environment, it's we on I don't welcome

when And file, where up much mean, like quarter, looking Tony, then, And there? what's I was Great. I'm today. this at the was file in going well. residential fee sort against double on side, is it guess, looks sort the And digits, just what it then mid-teens up of market. HPA Okay. on per seeing national the per like I goes we're as low Commercial stronger than that fee of

wanted to on X your just So get thoughts those items.

Yes.

front it, is But was the up refinance this $X,XXX. $X,XXX negligible to about And So what I versus have up in but fee point, in and check the our total mind, I in refinance $X,XXX basically, side the $X,XXX here X% about me which X%. double revenue. show prior of on then that I about per fourth of $X,XXX maybe need very file refinances and quarter, file purchase fee about year per keep is nonetheless, direct at against

So up about X%.

show to I would don't So up holds the relative or that I which me, know is X% X%, market blended think what residential overall. to

of terms don't Commercial, the In yes, I know.

deal. more probably a I that's think mix

think Commercial I larger don't and it have you if any on the to know tend we I why QX. Mike, fee profile have was... thoughts deals in

move and On to through versus expect And, Soham, of as I in normal, a year. last back in that 'XX. heavily as significantly quarter you're that transactions we we so quarter influenced would number good more reconcile into large fourth number kind to had. fourth really we the -- higher to of move pretty couple it a was by It the Commercial, right, the was

diversification? sort quick impact? one. a seeing the market the Mike, then there. just get Great. wanted just you your potential cybersecurity last fallout Okay. from on of Just thoughts some And We're hearing any are guys to

see don't really I Yes. that.

number negligible. who've has not indication from saw of I'm personally with And the talked I really concerns. there's given long-term think customer no been any relationships. customers, that any I to customers large a impact impact expecting,

comes Our Stephens. next from with Campbell question John

I commentary. the to revisit wanted M&A

mentioned that's how acquisitions also maybe you with $XXX count? of all-in And direct influencing with if guys captured XX maybe you last then roughly of portion the deals, those those? year sizing you the and can your help help contribution order million You over the the of maybe phasing what could Hoping much year.

touch start. as on I'll can well. Yes. it Mike probably

think I the maybe because lot Insight that year. year. and of XXX-ish a January the a bit So the think then in then picked at of X was of Property happened the the and things very I latter beginning up frankly, slowed deal down And that, part was

not so the were a agent smaller, lot title And acquisitions. large deals of

from count standpoint, significant. And not so an order

But in of course, keep to where kind in and their afford is off they it of there of peak. to right buy to was sell, a out the figure of mind, price businesses the out discovery lot when there's clearly what strange to the year trying out a price terms sellers figure for if can are

want expect in And that? more to I would in than you so I title XXXX think activity that do XXXX terms of agent address Mike, M&A.

counts. a it how but order number of weighted TitlePoint in second. impact heavily of John, year in at acquisitions, would looking counts, 'XX, deal. the give Half a half first you, as I the order about the half to impacted Obviously, dollar modest the I'm I agree. on the have by the were probably much at amount half don't Yes. list and to

Okay. And it. I of felt the acquisition size recognize the that earlier

it across like pretty immaterial, So seems agencies. just it's acquisitions tuck-in

So that for. was what I was looking

On the on items cybersecurity incident, to I maybe touch there. X want

So pretty the affected, obviously on sharply. orders first, December November jumped

XX% were or from any to a activity? up? that up on that Is I way push-out purchase. open think How there was size so orders stemming of your in order much

security kind have looked because as with you at they different electronic with X expectation, restricted to really out it of months, difficult lines looks we it's couple with were the from when you, because and were you with these them turn kind it's certainty, our think of but off I taking off I connections XX% where But days, you when we that like, and customers of your agree open about a the event. would get orders. particularly say there November have the orders world of centralized up

that and to up And was higher December, point, definitely your I XX%, think expectations. was then than

business of a December, really picking the our November last next that just it up transactions think And basis, picked kind to a the like of of off individual our did to couple days, were great of So and looked November, into into didn't and I those move closings. field of I work happen employees just in when and we And at up I revenues per-day we we that days in on the maybe customers December. feel couple really speaks days the the think in work with week. to next couple to

the we that's impact us I think customers say, in well why minimal. event. was And dealing the very, So I think with very with work very

to is, hear. I closing January, up closed it was do as I maybe below look guess or question those in you ratio kind was And closing I what closing December. moving catch higher on in capacity think this -- just you the ratio, issues, great January, seen orders? That's you of some the probably on you've at orders if as in way, back would ratio you I'm then guessing way push of historically. to a that? here Yes. the expect the higher mean, closing but a

should back I closing the we and The were And think into rate answer. at would overall, I when look say year the as the and ratios a you averages. closing we normalize potentially than improve 'XX same Commercial. go that's in the I of numbers, full John, I environment. driven say look for ratio have lower better at to I by, to give 'XX, end would those back beyond. historical probably expect, would obviously,

growing questions Okay. could light in Got gotten squeeze And I one more. -- about position. it. if your the I've

investment? rationale you the behind that could that and maybe also So then to if talk

The what asked? Is position? light that you

Yes.

Yes. If It negligible. have, pretty light the I think we crossed I we've radar. been think it's position grown don't much. hasn't my

So and back I'd double to to have that. check get you on

[Operator Instructions] Next comes Truist Securities. Mark Hughes question from with

included Or Was adjustment, your that was the pension earnings still out that $X the for frozen million in adjusted was expenses? number?

yes. adjusted it Mark. was No, was It out,

revenue? is at the opportunity and that an you Very now then What right. impact Okay. using that point, up expenses talked million X What good. million grow to it? about got All And contacts, the is or on for continue XX%. -- folks have to are penetration $X that if you've inHere, the

I Mark. think Mike, -- it's

transaction for I lot a real The still I upside. million standpoint, -- consumers of number and their staff. $X think agents kind And grow it of significant. that continue to includes think and both the a agent is potential a to estate coordinator there's from

I of potential So think there. there's a lot

The consumer number is marketplace. driven by more just the

as and with more occur, are transactions it. engage lower on suppressed more and we'll actually will to numbers us rates occur, market. out down more And come more So packages consumers consumers given the the send transactions

say, still to a of there's answer So maybe a quite bit I think potential. long-winded

turn And CEO, conclude I the question-and-answer our this Nolan, back session. conference now remarks. closing will will Mike for over to

Thank you.

accretive We the We positioned remain performance Title our to are our the with many drive strong are well in expand to build and generate very prospects continuing returns. term. opportunities cycle business navigate F&G's margin for asset XXXX. to expansion proud ahead Likewise, growth, and of market are and long deliver compelling

We forward appreciate to earnings our morning. you this look for quarter updating your your first call. time and interest on in Thanks FNF

Thank presentation, you conference today's has concluded. the for and call attending

disconnect. You may now