Rithm Capital (RITM) 7 Feb 242023 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Good morning, and welcome to the Rithm Capital Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 earnings call. [Operator Instructions] Please note this event is being recorded.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Bolla, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. thank Quarter joining Earnings and to Rithm today Call. like Fourth Capital's Full would you us for for I Year XXXX

of earnings Capital. Rithm Throughout Joining CEO call, to we Santoro, Michael the are to the was Financial Rithm reference posted going President morning the Chief Rithm me www.rithmcap.com. Nick that Capital; Capital of Nierenberg, Officer website, are and supplement today and Chairman, this

the already not encourage so, presentation now. done download you've If you I'd to

out that forward-looking review point results. and factors risk statements and made by I nature, release be to our would you in and the contained actual certain today will our statements press to with materially and statements. their review to reports like in I quarterly annual filed encourage from statements, earnings the These disclaimers forward-looking the may supplement are uncertain differ SEC. regarding

In most can addition, call. discussing these today's be earnings our of measures non-GAAP comparable during measures supplement. directly some financial we found in will to GAAP the Reconciliations be measures

that, I will to with call the Michael. over turn And

everyone. for Thanks, morning, Thanks Good joining today. our Emma. call

quarter we consistent a fourth report full solid and earnings, very what business As I all very say, good quarter another, year of across with would earnings year our our and lines.

we some to bit little unchanged we in asset showed manager There that the under in maintaining of essentially here while XXXX, the [ a As and the dilution path to the in discipline on alternative from asset got $XXX ] own. more and XXXX, out us we markets. we pivot that began we become value operating we a a very despite volatility set million an all our warrants business back Book year-over-year shareholders. little of saw distributed to warrant classes that companies thing was is

maintain quarter very us earnings strategic a position and a transactions, after one, continue solid we to: in our asset grow We quarter, alternative did put which create business. earnings and to two, couple of

the closed In quarter, we fourth on Sculptor.

leading a servicer was from We acquired also Computershare. SLS, which third-party in of the announced acquisition

here We sometime close expect that the to first in quarter.

forward, our valuation asset management to in at just of look business the company equity the we will what critical and of Rithm. revaluing the we do our overall As be of here our growth

XXXX very and we be beyond as the real we current a forward, classes, And that be environments investing good in asset should are and to positioned year extremely environment. estate. -- well in all look whether invest the

structured Anything we I think to in credit equities, et legacy hard sector, will look estate, we important it's the cetera. note financial real products, a services at. have no have

top both This the the and for at long-term real 'XX estate the the results asset at results both a shareholders. management LPs the business position and in to and while our in should to and Sculptor our businesses excellent be The were enable us REIT companies the us in performance prioritizing and put pack. grow Rithm of credit

may company. matter. results as always This any clear, have we be aspirations growth To a trump will

cash company, company our servicing here which approximately continues a the continue rights, between provide company pro or Newrez, and in We're and mortgage be non-bank mixed mortgage to Our X of we investors. income to billion U.S. top forma for mortgage best-in-class. great Rithm X $XXX our great have flow

lower Fed As environment. about rates. has been Yes, the we look the at [indiscernible] clear macro the

on well However, hold meet. of March other as the Fed the closer a and the little we the inflation [indiscernible] some economic should releases Friday's target for ] employment to comes data bit see down that as the that softens. of [ until keep recent don't we've data happening seen Fed

are as as all we our years have hedges servicing have close we assets. home we of Regarding against in -- our positioning, to been

we're going on and the to refer a Page chapter. now Start of X. will I to which new posted start online, supplement, been has

As billion billion to manager, was this things couple out as book started sheet. of a Rithm slide. of on for equity. repositioning alternative paid asset we a of of think the level, There's point and we global again, have At $XX about, shareholder out the company XXXX the XX%. since $X We've dividends billion in total our $X was balance return Rithm XXXX,

in when about business. performance Sculptor a real on different large world-class credit, both in The [indiscernible] $XX businesses the X under and puts funds, been player formidable continue verticals in combination to position space. multi-strat or business, a billion real management of be and to CLO us you asset as think estate, a management the the has -- such businesses the

X, financial December of Book was $XX.XX. at value XXXX. highlights, our Page the end

of had loss income, equity our of MSR and cash Common the a $XXX attributable At $X.X dividend, $X $XX our some of available Our GAAP had level. billion for $X.XX write-down Earnings total of to liquidity of 'XX, distribution, or Rithm assets. That's million. we end we and billion $X.XX. net per share. at million diluted the of

unchanged. million X.X%, For per after equity, warrants, the million available dividends Book $XXX from GAAP a for X.X% diluted return again, distribution $X.XX and in earnings full on factors year, $XXX distribution. Total for XX.X% $X.XX at share. [indiscernible]. perspective Earnings share. was per diluted And earnings or value or economic this essentially return,

seeing or we've are our chapter, announced what last pulling about they And year second that dynamics what Goldman the the business. were July marketplace of of at the In on done level? their we're back some Marcus the Rithm today? things new think quarter, in we are As that

Goldman of consumer went $X.X from Sachs. we So out and acquired we billion loans

the As makes developers acquired banks expanded loans the residential by We we United of Capital portfolio we that and States. were originated division lending ], direct business, Genesis through about to Civic. a West a capabilities Pac residential transitional which continuing of was [ throughout transitional which builders our our Civic, to loans retreat think

and sectors like funding commercial real equity business, dislocated capital To we gaps, opportunities asset management need estate very, business. grow real such real standpoint. -- think commercial a our alternative in acquired us estate strategic infusions When a Sculptor. Genesis Capital legacy have for great GAAP we provide construction for sectors our having good puts exposure from very financing place a not as about Underfunded

think business, of third-party servicer, truly we here. which As we'll fee-based slides the third-party our and servicing capabilities, SLS, business little a in us helps is bit get about the acquisition a grow to in those

think of Sculptor good we into As of very numbers get some the business very, and both and the had XXXX. our performance, Rithm a we'll shortly, funds the

of about global that business the hear think then lines different and with both we extend us [indiscernible] we to at partnerships, world Sculptor solutions help our here alongside and throughout the to capital the want reach As Rithm capital partnerships to more create we levels. our co-invest

$XX X, management. under Sculptor, of Page billion AUM

estate longer with If capital incentive to XX% the over billion team of have The years credit this large talk is one and AUM of partners business we transparent a our you want for fund. as in And one clients, the look and And We've -- delivered investment business, duration. investments, we'll at over a been large the look and deployed credit team, really greater verticals, that and across have then structure, leaders of we real and XX at great shareholders. multi-strat operate LPs Sculptor. a be -- clients the shortly. decade. XX% When about the different $XXX at you Sculptor than

of funds net one Tactical looking up Page -- there's multi-strat and great call X, net, back. Fund, that X.X%, the Credit funds. a leaders in the Fund, what Credit XX.X% credit X The XXXX is performance multi-strat credit I The volatile was year. XX.X%, in the The would performance Opportunities fund business. industry

since Tactical Real Fund up performance, Real Estate the net. net, is estate performance XX.X% Fund Estate is net. On XX.X%. very if And Fund the life-to-date The look the to then III, Credit I, real Credit multi-strat the Opportunities XX.X% and good then Fund side, returns XX% X.X%, you right, inception,

my in So [indiscernible] world. and with around overall, as to to strategic performance grow we're going with hopefully lead we're then throughout our performance I business opening importance AUM remarks, the pointed build going and out

Opportunity, about think know Page on Rithm these the buzzwords. we and Partnership. As Approach are I X, Innovation

was out as started which we -- credit on operating Rithm, business there's obviously, we've continue business as of Keep of formerly different innovation. mind, was forefront XXXX, fortress capital then grow grown areas. full-scale manager. asset MSR-only have and known of Residential as private much in out Innovation. a and born to REIT, number commercial New the in been banks back an sectors our expect funding to creating see We've in REIT We that where have, needs back very for private an this into a we pulling at

the we're REIT operating track We we and know as that, records companies matter. all something We our And Partnership, on. have focused well. large then that's have then and

we'll and to take Page slides going Baron let I'm the here. about out talk company, mortgage on X. those Baron's

morning. Good right. All

that the good our in -- with we structured focus Just a we had And differentiated X. succeed XXXX, Slide XX%. turning is a to to ROE to platform And very right? really platform as and year continue at really view industry-leading

there, a a originations of the QX baseline that In were origination 'XX. segment had in is the able of which the XXXX. on of right running breakeven, do for as business we Our of as QX results talked million see mark-to-market, you income Mike servicing on about $XXX GAAP chart little Obviously, bit on $XXX a MSRs all kind and the on to basically have million. we the

that and platform, on a little next really slide. advantage more is strategic I'll the Our bit on servicing go our

we to we retail, you going partnership with DTC But channel, all going see also different very we're of differentiate growth and channels ourselves into in X the the origination positioned wholesale, correspondent, 'XX that being and and much really like forward. model feel our there,

fourth see Turning how So first benchmark the grow to you we to we're us really our close CAGR on to our of There over on quarter also about had servicing with and share billion forma continued a a income, we we basis left -- continue XX% include either a $XXX right? market right? that X view doubling in to at chart talk XX, the third-party on looking almost billion to opportunities business grow as what the growth look platform, the end the our the Michael basis to quarter of and servicing is fee-based Michael organic servicing third-party are of the Slide pro counterparties. 'XX. is an lot on last even or an we of years. bottom going the at talked our servicing on the at $XXX When that's deal are you existing the from when sector for we SLS MSRs, which acquisition that SLS And basis acquisition for anticipating we're are on whether

and as business is retail the business. focused overview continues and the align is We in brief at focus overall our looking Turning and portfolio a how been then XX, servicing at there sales portfolio. recapture business just perspective our our our customers. really of a retail retail their their we're really from We about [indiscernible] to to with strategic our with remain which business, excellent Slide The And to platform it leaders platform. origination retail we relationships our marry servicing like our retail to distributed do has retail Newrez think to on

platform, our we cost-effective in of that, you is acquisition and with into to the expand position we're and go correspondent customer Our MSR channel. how classes [indiscernible] believe to quarter as downstream into business going begin first and tell growth would our class XXXX. in different our co-issue we asset our business, in that continuing customers we I

focused on is wholesale [indiscernible] with our and products, in a Rithm including Our closed non-QM. really agency products and partnership alternative [indiscernible] then platform

Consumer our strategy we offensive the as continue utilize as entire across to and platform grow out Direct, that centralized health our force business. basically

strategic across platform. can entire grow different platform do joint we origination our companies as business And our brokerage continue and really to relationships last partnerships ] and different venture we partnerships drive is fintechs, as with builder [ the

servicing a to agree business thing really Certainly, it AI and We processing self-service is really, just going customers on is and their operations tools it's and on just for employees. our on and our Microsoft mortgage partnership talk Slide the strategic I to And -- focus data. on just really respect what that it's for made implementing the policies, focus customers revolutionize an or is times. procedures, as way, can about then with that the to yesterday salespeople and with at been do all a teams our about XX. guidelines, our And announcement industry. for Last entire employees, industry mortgage

operating become is on business. the view going evaluate more Our our board for the as we across entire ways efficient AI to but our also to significant have across customers, continue platform better benefits serve different to

that, I'll it on So turn back Mike. to

Baron. Thanks,

So couple get Q&A. to through just more then just a go and slides through we'll

They all Capital and Genesis a Coupon first Genesis on business $XXX couple anywhere business. plus minutes to the from of loans we of XXXX. kind Attachment rates minute a Goldman million to a on points the had acquired typically anywhere $XXX range Genesis developers, just from can mortgages. are back [ XX make business or I is ]. in XX they're SOFR to million lien from LTVs. builders

portfolio the when up points about space, So up because to a on feel business when unlevered leader the great the from, going it's think about points I basis, going going underlying alt lending call There's or at XX% other XX%. to loans you an something and on of a it, in in. example in whether good all X%, a business. lines, bring good where X%, this direct market look you out. I in these up the are And this and think coupons ] way it lending this business we [ we're go to in grow is that direct think be the we're potential space anywhere

something will over for a ROE, space. expect business been billion, overall income to in business, Banks us. continue very been do we The time. to retreat and 'XX. standpoint $X.X close good that an we good that business It's think, in a from and to grow it's And itself

talk I single-family it's [indiscernible] rental last it, The business. our just about

end were X,XXX of with about homes at consistent have where We QX. pretty the we

million in We have capital. $XXX homes, [indiscernible] about

context up company. We of almost intend -- public partnership with arena. private of funds will it if grow -- the very like The this a public to be small through in are this you We that think Rithm, private the rates they like go did reason to Cap we years they and needed higher, go thought we higher. so up. and in going of to the rates more we past is scaled were haven't couple up go are thought because

could opportunity are clearly be be a the at and is the the over of at look years to expect a continue to look course pools look partner in we segment today, performance, of we builders are opportunities deploy some we the think different of [indiscernible] the capital After with the throughout the as U.S. capital we going in to U.S. as likely this of business. at when So -- hopefully going shortage that, for couple create you next you have if the to more large separately. here housing And space

And back now we'll operator the turn it to for Q&A.

from [Operator Instructions] George Bose KBW. The with first question comes

Can SLS sort you talk excess position, including for about your of pro forma acquisition? capital the

$X.X we Current and of kind liquidity Today, $X.X QX end something think cash I about of on cash were billion. hand, and we roughly announced at billion that's where is our stand. so the

most the March. likely expect fund acquisition We SLS in to early

$X.X acquisition, post-SLS at liquidity, be we $X.X billion billion us And Yes. Bose. expect to and around of

to way good is you at of -- have of all Okay. a times. versus keep to sort deployment a obviously, think for because there level available liquidity cash I mean of certain

post how up, available acquisition? have So much for you just deployment capital that like things as come

Yes, $XXX Bose. million, it's probably

things capital in the excess hit balance that the there over have the of quarter done sheet. that. markets. Clearly, the in the well really the is that for been cash of past years to of some out couple mortgage peers we're We raising XXXX. liquidity One our capital set markets some the haven't during of monitoring example carry out and we -- company high-yield since We've

all continue we'll So of capital. evaluate to sources

the discussions teams around And and are road in capital various as with formation. and mind, we the all then also our space, having grow keep on LPs

of as other as to well of the some at formation -- XXXX as you companies well the think I the year level be could some as at Rithm capital Sculptor. So operating a expect

another Okay. quick Great. Actually, one.

Just what final is Sculptor? the goodwill for number

approximately intangibles, $XXX and million. Goodwill

question comes from Eric next The Hagen BTIG. with

around questions portfolio. [ A in couple ] the of recapture

bought there on MSRs recapture of a you estimate from you that that that using as I the to big Just board? how bring channel? sort you in correspondent you're mean, is a recapture do Including effective that as with SLS, letter, expect be

in take I'll Baron let sec. a it

you've think years. the easier you and depending whether recapture or to standpoint, recapture, the of When standpoint or in including be over the recapture to the portfolio because historically of marketplace loans Ginnie a apples-to-apples. the when us with I a the money seen say. should peers typically the HUD you recapture that stuff the SLS from from money business, at in anybody mortgage it easier type, or ] else our you XX% business [ added in a have the added there's think some product refinance look look marketplace, of our Mae I upon or at type are is refinancing

So Fannie higher. little are lower. recapture Freddie products, a those On numbers going numbers to are those be typically, bit

on The now. cohort rates added today where are of were they significantly and just based or the money recapture where

So see prior that companies some the I knowing you'll our on I numbers. think product has life ] with probably life. -- think be And consistent Mae a prior because a normalized these in and X I when where recapture our that's you recapture to Ginnie to form market, handle recapture we group refi refi continue well work we numbers data we servicing are to be think that huge much as are folks thing. could difficult But something purchase think the a business -- as have think is more the and on. XX% folks going about you're my I with [ helped working with our Huge my going the a It's of see recapture, of been in would guess. origination we overall, north think I in folks. higher assume in And of that industry

if you know there? to anything don't add want I there's Baron,

No, that's right.

Okay. Great.

yourself. can raised possibly raised dynamic flesh debt your feel will services you competitive think Maybe unsecured -- way? by kind being that's about appetite of you any in the being sector the there? out drive mentioned of you into the looking in in the unsecured And do how You some the like capital market and some other some change

a all X.X% of all look do market we long who've today financed, SOFR high-yield it the Penny at of -- it think some is ], look we been When folks we at whether all not We're been [ whether I'm respectful each X.XX% I [ be -- we and and other time. Yes. at Cooper, be where we're do. the ]. We've what it other.

your [ $XXX assume So to ] over. if you million million let's it's financing, whatever, about $XXX MSR ] think [

we So If that's debt take, markets, we're a going unsecured heavily. that give X%. the or could in issue high-yield to public explore

So to is your question answer the hungry. short we're

[ Harter comes The with Doug from UBS. next ] question

Michael, -- MSRs, be closer rates. continued been home in for you're that said you to kind volatile obviously of hedging on to

the little just first kind quarter? of those performed they to you as and If us could give of you a in when update kind added hedges how

Sure.

QX, like So I at you that. if or closed, ] something like [ think [ the look think, XXX ], at I XX-year XXX

QX you So and rally massive had QX. between a

of of significantly kind we results reflected book million GAAP the than reported write-down in MSR our was that our $XX GAAP higher the Our which loss.

So it's really an MSR mark.

we when think if as a of that $XXX that, just have that look down [ million [ us now. we is of scale we at about from longer. a higher bit million and what at -- $XXX I industry, you -- mark a is the I our of P&L others that or When When Nick, than like which took think lot ] million you probably -- the was look look ] it $XX think other that QX, we the duration shows -- just versus ] perspective when the the [ in you at I assets little business, should we're you think $XX million something that, you broad total

we hedging are at hedging from have MSR have out rates, look perspective, our we book. When QX a mortgages that

years. remarks, our versus -- to and a we've billions As is have dollars because what whereas my we and been home said close hedges That few I of opening in MSR billions of as in asset. as

where share. For we value this Book could north is probably of you are assume the now is $XX a the and quarter, reflects hedges.

reflects that hedges. what the seeing both the see going MSR you're to as gains So as well that in our we're book

thinking rates, I this rate Kind pretty And still of of how to your to Great. move do this close given try from guess, point? run point, would about try kind risk in the or to home are you at that? to expectation adjust be you

the or I a the desire there's say we overall the be unforeseen [ table, would of thought the up here market now, on when Fed cut you to were to New else, a felt out rate speak off the standpoint, the pretty a barring rates, past or think in though to or geopolitical about When look from set at is things Fed, look their an even March right at the we ton at what probability listening look you short of event City of you when XX%. June obviously, good. -- I past or economy at the York I dinner we perspective, the is couple anywhere Listening now, REIT probability Fed think -- some you cuts, there's from something to why else. years feel ] side. go lower market for

going to So fight Fed. not we're the

standpoint the more the couple of versus again, year you're in and the going QX see straight volatility couple well Fed, closer it edge because, everywhere this markets we've or a in won't duration of of an end lot was this a home, past what than seen past be years standpoint, as we years, fight into year will the as -- into up. we from going to We to from think

it's little bit to Now predict. a harder

we're home. So be to to going close

from with Sandler. The next question comes Piper Barker Kevin

going just portfolio we as other asset given the you you investment management, forward? X segments Or with basis? think some interacting going a How each the do segments on see the different business different is about basically should handling way information. the manage the loans segment handling viewing whole, segments to new whether receivable? you're Are Just of a regards to it's the these or Rithm these go-forward mortgage

the [indiscernible] the thank noticing the go-forward Kevin. It's managing Well, basis. you yes. the first, to anticipate your question is we a on and answer way for business

have set we the portfolio noticed, company, REIT. business the and sits up, business, it asset that have you mortgage Genesis management As investment at

second envision move forward. do we management To the we asset answer your question, occurring as activity some between segment

you there -- down within any could C forward, so X give different moving REIT, right, Can whether updates it's a what when be structures, playing whether or like, management how or Do you it the that this. Rithm timing a And on XX and you the corp asset months and it's out? you business envision road? think about structurally looks

-- going know. it's Kevin, not I I to I -- our that think think,

think Our We closed business in the Sculptor at we at think structure, evolve. way created the of and I why and our or want story that's these Nick I different reporting. columns of November, our to end the financial our will continue end simplify -- to verticals

going two, to Ares than vocal simplify is a results, it's REIT, that. REIT folks REIT number ] like think to marketplace manager, the Scope, great larger think, is that a the management or What or story. our and put to [ of players world-class become, need be different no to we One, to AUM. raise need the desire. whether as the expect itself A be continue in time, pretty been our it be grow to sits That We I asset funds, some Blackstone could to we've you about going from REIT. obviously up there's over I us to business. and currently a huge asset

do, goal, with sure. going do with of at asset going grow But pipeline business -- we our need a things business. drive underlying terminal when continue associated that that we again, our value not everything sole and to And fees to I that's our think to are our on but change performance. higher opportunity to management the for look in because are we to lead

and have upward. could I wanted Rithm onward at to highlight now, are the But the we good really And performance, Sculptor in the results one what together because level level I platforms. over our terrific, across would Things and and for of investment the both time. to professionals deck reasons both come call

closer or I Ares think Blackstone we'll type change, type -- So structure. obviously, something we're be to an Blackstone, things will be a but to assume that not but structure could going you

anticipate of Okay. Baron. just servicing There's you mortgage lot there's headwinds on you as 'XX, a move growing bit quite And up do then to side. mortgage origination the to anticipate just main share a maybe have greater of be to overall revenue you volume? revenue. of revenue bit a the servicing origination continue follow with to forward little do given in revenue of But fee on the pickup Or mix driver? Obviously, a to momentum

to we affordability expect is production the be slower believe mortgage think I what do year for the is 'XX be mean challenging certain But is low that -- a maybe mortgage into term, to that people effect across do it's use benefit, activity right? them more from sector. I home perspective. I in But lock-in overall. 'XX, hope. today an I going better I right, sell more think rates for going There So this stability going to the a board. the in consumers have from those than definitely interest rates,

originations Our focus on is certainly -- I side, about perspective Michael certainly the origination the on year the make talked and about. business think the in different in servicing channels the perspective opportunistic of going that verticals, 'XX. But that bit efficient little still sure reduction we board, an well. we at ongoing as across as as from across you're the AI talked run different from a but But very each from even do about expense look our better that I servicing one opportunistically to a also to possible. side see

we're right? And now, starting that Yes. to see

we seeing into [ than A not spring. a coming December. momentum It in -- better the ] close right. quarter was the as already certainly but certainly surprise, months That's we're than came better

that platform, business And the the when all at in expenses quite retail with the strategic frankly, is for we out just goals company, businesses, the other and look you on of profitability. some is thing, which, Kevin, the align trying taking platform made changes different to example, origination the

The variability on obviously and about think thing MSRs way you is the produce gain the other there. you on sale your there's how

obviously levers So could you in segment. pull there in the earnings that earnings drive Servicing would origination higher segment that are versus the low

Raymond comes The next Laws Stephen with from James. question

smaller Michael, what acquisitions, organic adding the at share on maybe out billion that business asset you've organically? you Sculptor -- believe managers you targets and specifically growth, [indiscernible] well like already versus compelling attractive as may Do management Do with look some wanted talk or me, I but far Would you as about fund as pieces [indiscernible], maybe market got have maybe that there channel. margins look Same additional for seems made to excuse to of [indiscernible] and any June retail retail, as as something $X CRE. acquire in AUM with Is business. well? asset it I place? you complementing growth

everybody The a to out marketing. So first, funds there. on meeting could have fund a The with fund the around I out is -- LPs Sculptor it's businesses estate grow side, their a the -- and that credit the look something the yes, wonderful. billion is continue time. grow which to over real It's clients platform, believe around guys $X

AUM, moving You're not confident the really is -- So I out, but noise about more mean forward. FRE of we're grow excited is moving gone, at Whatever gone on was past and in growing right? organization the prospects highly the to going side. We're the forward. the

to performance. with lead you But have

be of the the shareholders. and we opening -- public the are of LPs [indiscernible] I whether that one in have, capital, in businesses we fiduciaries remarks said what So it or any

you as 'XX good and level, Rithm the well when foremost, look at to both as good we've and prior returns. and First earnings at drive need And delivered we the at Sculptor there level looking to there.

going like AUM. don't us We're is, talk hear that's their and big love time, the to going have So I there. businesses. to But target. we're how dry help grow not just grow we'd over how I tell now. it's those think -- to a you powder to bigger players you specific much AUM I'd right out be

would I every day. say, we through which strategically look grow We acquisitions, single could acquisitions, at some

I management currently are the go could we in So The class. space. you forward more expect in asset have world as think teams place acquisitions we

If you level. management at the results at the look asset

Rithm put candidly, is this disparaging not anyone. level, against us the anybody at up I'd and against Here being

taken MSRs retail we the we business hard retail Rithm the side the business business. aggressive have, or the side, here well that with some the level measures have to something between of the including I look year excess as number and I out we P&L at think, third-party business. billion align at have think some as of is look when overall you $XXX here beginning you of We've a what pretty When level, we about Newrez the that the both with MSR. production like expect And that proper SLS,

customers have should lot we drive we to of a through. be So able origination volumes

pretty happy I something now think at on we with, actually a from If hard we money was could But look -- we retail felt we're have where it. giveaway the make that are. side we'd a

salespeople recruiting mortgage We do will time. up because origination over pick are think reactive we

Great. And follow-up. one

are Given potential the quarter, the forward do likely to accurate? we operating sorry, state closed as kind about expenses the feel got some scope SLS side, ] ROEs. of you the and this higher steady Or as you've work talk acquisition and think about you move closing Or expense like talk through [ year? there any can or we pretty synergies action out drive

side, SLS haven't yet. the On we closed

line at that say same and will create We're to and successful, business to able So add I significant saves. is think that add other and be to there's going that expense going synergies the additional saves, -- if of revenue are more we're what around looking to synergies I those should be think, would business. I platforms

own At the to shared It's between, standpoint. Sculptor we thing that. from, an The is and where though, services. the its teams, teams. continue to are model, we for a from investment level, I synergies example, we'll investment the Sculptor shared we look fortress good model going go asset look be management things around service forward and When create I that's think could to came we at had at as and

McCanless The comes next question with Wedbush. from Jay

And I CRE Michael, you about gaps the involved? now where funding. at the right in until there in rates down those year, for opportunity be see do if do later these The opportunities being [ ] to GAAP how don't [ Rithm go guess, first and question, ] talked you and stay levels evolve?

a -- there's are folks office sale, away for is obviously office in a that. mean looked We've from ton think because shying I there's at I opportunities. different So of for example. number of most opportunities

equate the I'm best say us which days market capital. in in all not environments deploy And -- the these we've would -- day, careers. takes call this is it born, some were 'XXs, quite early at everybody on real the this we seen frankly, opportunities what those When estate the is thrifts, when was of to but the we investing our I to liquidating great government to back sure were look RTC

where COVID crisis, crisis, being there's dot-com You result ] we opportunities. and in great, a look rates you the with office, look look today great at the at financial you the and of great [ not are at as people

the billion. about at, with of debt pool total dollar $X.X side was first the a of write of loss I As their with market example, debt done -- in for a them not you're they time a back would down, their over originated once to we've cap as acquired of as the is a deal banks going write just roughly Recently balance off a looked long they're that assets strategic. they them with what We've at few some find $XXX we I to office years part investing think down, around the space. million. -- where sheet look We some think,

stuff down you million, to as the underwrite that going billion it, there. $XXX So long you as you significantly. expertise if think about And we're think have to $X.X to deploy capital

It's The need seen better that real for our in investing is in environments real be because the estate both and the again, debt. the side, careers. of of doing some their we've one thing Sculptor whether around it we're the the And equity -- estate on guys same. funding traditional a story out, they're There is players and a great going look Rithm certain to banks you real place areas when Sculptor think estate are less it legacy in these opportunities. between aggressive, advantage to amount of commercial puts estate who be going who or take real less at to of fair aggressive the be have a us both are in I

step now? guys when So look or taking an about eye at alternative makes you the could and What asset take sense? a if you you're a are further at and taking right acquisitions space, thinking what that

with Anything we our be synergistic business think. that existing can that

pieces We both need level. Rithm have the Sculptor win in place don't and at anything to the else. We

asset several the we're we manager pick think I I us trade poorly equity shareholders. earnings at you I of about great be and look the think where this that trade, -- the more When frankly, I the a narrative quite up like think think an if change part way an trade we is and could and multiples for one. opportunity versus alternative shareholders think you going is as for we we to from EBITDA, real -- our perspective. we LPs

how we're thinking that's So about it.

we [indiscernible] I'm here level, estate [ me. and the are the team, class, I and guys the saying Rithm in that place. ] have of scope are At -- real guys the But all class, the pieces master with is credit fund the mean world and Charles world

weight. I above think we all punch our

have a world-class be in can the just what our and accretive need for holders more don't team, It's We really we business. anything equity else.

If you if opportunities Okay. out stay Genesis year, ] Anything to the there high I do are And one think there? seeing rates acquisition may. that you're platform? looks build interesting [ more, this

Yes.

there those this be, take, I think will or do wins there you $X.X or need team [indiscernible] could mentioned give our in think be business. going at you you I billion if we're platform, earlier, to so scale acquire the should platform currently lines. year business have I in origination are a lending people, a and/or know now. honestly, do right platforms looking I if -- which don't

The with next Giuliano Bologna comes Compass Point. from question

MSRs? how you think far And those versus still good is, out I realize growth both all if [indiscernible] I'm this may fund funds? SLS One know And deals your I'm opportunity curious the quarter. think hopefully been be results balance the at large vehicles of the curious the is But not MSR I'm for you curious how company about that I'm on to there's closing potential about point? curious think I soon. sheet there. and too allocating a mortgage hopefully there's raising thing progress Congrats this on the this we asking about

balance and management up Sculptor likely what balance constant sheet brought the asset for business I There's SFR under business the from the company. dialogue public Rithm to sheet we're going at between away the we level think grow that call funds the that as and about I would investing. example,

the there do the think larger an was around article raising a $X I something one intend managers money, billion about there. -- to We asset large build-to-rent of space. fund similar

type MSR I they're at of you from to you XX% funds side, we look created MSR continue the -- mean, create X% On candidly. unlevered where to when these, an evaluate will we yield. anywhere

So the discussions had I've times and in been have overseas to in make a recapture/origination to this you got mind to work. make past operating these are our folks. need sure number that business year. with the you resonates with We've business folks. -- There X of

discussions, we'll of work our a to and But these so. it So we've business. to had has do ton continue within

have Sculptor The last we thing them. when products funds. I'll business, The point clip you ] credit out, structured the [ have look at funds in

the best counts they giveaway created great results when on the team during period when of, and of the advantage and results. Some are were example, there essentially March for COVID, those XXXX assets take a

or we estate fund the the and se don't need So funds when multi-strat the funds at credit have Sculptor have real dedicated level per the a fund. we we necessarily

time. potential the it some won't about little [indiscernible] process, helpful. obviously, to but That's asset manager done. model, you've to doing then Obviously, probably I'm And pushes it coming terms of talk a very take you about deal alterative talked an of more for be the past. the that the that a SLS back timing bit get confidential mortgage [indiscernible] in something company curious, in

to sheet kind you some moving of party about or some the moving to the for assets about third of what I'm the or over management asset be talked the curious you next How long few milestones will think years? the level? do could asset management You've balance that and think moving the take vehicles. when AUM of into pivot Rithm SFR business one

could it do X weeks. would we If weeks, in we it X in do

When the look No together. there -- things that is Sculptor levels. to together larger We could do some different answer do no. we are could we old things We listen, sheet? we sheet do answer think strategic space. do at can those the things folks, take with time. is the yes. the help? balance we look players will need we balance at in The together the going than I at The biggest It's Does that

time. take going the it business. to It's you'd -- in will take Ideally, the do some fund to so-called want more

valuable. -- thing about of business And I I of to do out, things our beautiful other point have $X perspective. the billion is from The highly equity just think one that's permitting we an capital

that us capital not to at off would vehicles look I sheet, from assets look permanent as I are to think, just going from if valuation standpoint well. as create give we transferring or we more creating transferring, forward, as going is call a continue help But balance So to we'll what that could more well. permanent standpoint, going a equity

The with next Jones question comes from Jason Stewart Trading.

March? the SLS I and way. the larger elaborate duration ], This of the how going within close to on you you is Michael, once the the [ integration Newrez in was an you in ecosystem you by it Jason see time mentioned question? can What's achieve expected earlier wondering, that Weaver for the synergies

state as a part. we servicing the so pretty business U.S. be and more happening to geography in try We're concentrate expect have seamless across to most the are but we here things to geography because signed continue deal. We to now. the speak integration it's every Things than that for going

South couple Washington we PA, are in [indiscernible] have When at main got Greenville, and Texas. servicing sites, we you we sites Those Tempe, then sites. We Arizona Carolina. a of got have look our our in

and a acquiring full-scale could But under going from continue out assume to it's putting servicing operating and that going platform a asset you is think way. lot acquiring that servicing I different businesses.

joint update new on for on just a of follow-up I was have if the things, possible you origination wondering venture partnerships side developments And as new there? any

on slow focused just the are evaluate transactions business, that Most which realtor business on, about that be Michael strategic is pretty well. with other obviously business a entire different as will origination we're might for our would I obviously side, of say, being We the partnerships fintech our slow. from more accretive you tell or relationships I relationships them overall. like talked pretty

a it's trying something type as So that even constantly we kind of if to someone and platform of joint is the look sell venture say then alternative. structure any at on we acquisition, an can utilize

The Cranston next comes ] [ question Trevor Securities. with from JMP

guys you XX, made Slide bit servicing at loan. Looking have a cost quite progress of per on the

of you evolving? of a platform? particular. have you forward that where target of look if to efficiency on in how get see SLS about Can talk you you the sort you think servicing the sort post you And can As

the processes. system, very the to subservicing going on amount continue our mean, going that we've fair be operating the ecosystem. I Rithm operating to continue the that utilizing We we servicing that Newrez consolidation acquisition get that into move about a to look, the consolidation briefly to talked of of done from going and leverage moved leverage with different to of there's can Michael of that quick. get We're in. They're come that period SLS. we think we time the it's Yes. proprietary when our to

priorities going -- cost to one of say And it's already is with which very that have before. that third-party are That obviously new this grow from continue our in would we seamless down. they of top we're about on or I relationships bringing talked but for others and drive clients costs efficiency, to very that we're those us platform, to some to have to overall I is and relationships, business perspective strategic a continue my

just continues the in operating do. best to And about here we that all leverage in loan We think we're cost that's benchmark. You Obviously, the see go really our down. per the business.

Got it.

real talk commercial think funds? how available have how opportunities of you pursuing then follow-up capital those Rithm's sort about you the the on And about you balance about estate on in to on helpful. That's the pursue opportunities Can potentially question managed opportunities versus Okay. a side. much sheet

other. here business at run Orbuch continue they think stuff itself. look managed some Nick is think going see we I very I with the debt this will balance the ] sheet. This than example, Steve up do. run the their that they where very very, sheet. not the funds, Hecker deal continue brought [ compete than to way do their on did that and We one will one-off is you're that going balance the Rithm business that on and ], on [ team to different to I They different do I what Rithm things for things division think, to

you -- their of stuff the about and the Barn team who ], of of group we and brought ] at Welsh David end which 'XX, some [ -- been Dave named folks recall, If have looked which world-class here. at we a Green ] at in [ instrumental was -- is we've that Schonbraun [ in

for Steve to investment business, Nick and see Rithm we going grow and balance Clearly, they funds themselves. do to you're results some do on sheet. think stand to I the continue the what and want will So

a type business. it of -- So different investing be will

I -- and than, be REIT. example, of different funds do you what what see no see and times think partner, There what their at they between private could I at the in think, funds for we when Blackstone some the private there. you'd

conference to question-and-answer remarks. would the concludes to for over This CEO, back any closing like Michael session. I turn our Nierenberg,

know support, and a of Any a for Thanks have you joining questions. the lot good us. Appreciate to reach Thanks, follow-up, day. some great everyone. good dialogue, how

The for Thank you presentation. conference attending today's concluded. now has

now may You disconnect.