Trinity Capital (TRIN) 1 May 242024 Q1 Earnings call transcript

Good afternoon. My name is Jamie, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Trinity Capital's First Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning at approximately 3 p.m. Eastern Time. is no number required ID dial access. for replay X-XXX-XXX-XXXX, conference and is The

Instructions] [Operator

go now is to Investor Capital. Head over to Ben of Please Trinity for It Relations pleasure Malcolmson, my turn ahead. the call

Q&A Thank us you, Capital's Call Brown, of are Chief the Harder, portion for Officer; Chief we Operating to for Executive quarter Also Today, Testa, by Chief Officer Earnings and Sarah are Chief XXXX. Financial and Conference call first joined Ron and Officer; Jamie, Counsel. Credit welcome the Stanton, Trinity Kyle joining Officer; Compliance Officer. Chief the Michael General Gerry Kundich, and

the or today's earnings were results telephone from Relations ir.trinitycap.com. financial in call our by Trinity's number available provided Investor of at will our on using earlier be be today the website and can website release. accessed replay released A

made that laws. uncertainties, and any certain based be actual Before to forward-looking on or important remind these factors. recent most materially information some everyone guidance, factors there that for securities on results encourage expressed financial statements we that forward-looking deemed involve known facts statements could of this these like to implied may risk forward-looking begin, under are not refer from cause those I statements. relating these our to to are during federal differ statements Because call, by would We historical risks and to unknown you SEC filings statements including

May longer time reading. accurate information responsibility may transcript only call reported that you Please no forward-looking that replay or Trinity as X, the of be statements. no are Therefore, speaks or listening information obligation advised any this the update XXXX. time-sensitive assumes at any Capital of today, to on note

me Brown. allow Trinity to CEO, over to call turn Capital's please the Now Kyle

joining us everyone, Thanks, today. Thank you, Ben. for

Notable in by the opportunistic X gross $XXX a of for First quarter our value continue to existing companies. Trinity. year new highlights remain shareholders. market quarter portfolio strong was we current We companies platform scale include deliver investing during across portfolio start in XX and as our the fundings and the to million to

of Record management investment pushing assets income under AUM of net of our growth XX.X%. last a return billion. versus XX% QX $X.X $XX.X to year-over-year, XX% million, equity Platform year and of of increase

XXth Credit success. navigate a remain our allowed to increased us Our our origination first We $X.XX us dividend our the to in portfolio portfolio performance the per regular fundamental quarterly to underwriting to consecutive maintain and standards to to continue We've dividend. increase quarter, market. making management position and effectively share and quarter. this management dynamic diligence

cornerstone Our committed going our that that uncommon which and continuous the here at creating unique team learning here an is We're nearly Trinity. track entrepreneurial culture key built Trinity's platform built lending a of forward. is we of of X a trajectory pillars: around all XX to excellence is a of care, and record professionals to differentiated humility, creates integrity, spirit, trust,

of a our well shares or which of to employees, interest management as as investors. expectations the part alignment maintain own beyond management a and and that's assets Shareholders strong our as returns every with own Trinity same above value pool as maximizes provide to platform, the company, shareholders. and investors. managed strive internally whether clients employees our We of BDC, an And

tech equipment its warehouse and quarter, financing, Trinity teams. their expanding our In and credit solidified their the originations, life lending to commitment the with business position in the by growth diversified investments own portfolio highlighted Our X lender across sciences, by distinct a growing each first as originations, platform further management initiatives strategic our platform. lending, is verticals:

pivotal been Our of our strong achieving they quarter, that to XX equity exceptional relationships by our also are funding an raised aggregate secure portfolio able portfolio in partners have demonstrating of $X.X performance. seek. with was of portfolio companies billion the companies, and first the In our industry companies

strong positioned quarter $XXX pipeline, commitments, unfunded a million ended growth We including leaving XXXX. continued us for investment of the with in well

As a to Trinity's are of reminder, approval and unfunded ongoing subject by committee. commitments our investment all diligence

of Turning and bench of sponsor-backed With in companies. to choice private for in this high nonbank is be Exceptional picking demand the lenders remain new capital, and worlds. we levels opportunities. the continue macro BDCs with approach our powder up environment. Activity dry capital to equity vehicles maintain selective for

pipeline further principles here build our operators. we in sponsors, the core own outsized relationships banks with located partners, our major strategically As than care on We markets shareholders. direct ourselves around employees a pride serving just deep partners by and have originators our to lender, providing country uncommon at clients our and for and Trinity, returns our X being rather exhibiting for and money

our continue diversifying momentum systems, to grow the to value maximize for started. our direct to in getting to forward this look platform. plan just We extending teams future. to the and come quarters the to best-in-class continue about invest we bullish investments We're lending our We in mold shareholders. We're and as

financial the And Mike? with that, Michael Testa, results over our in I'll more turn CFO, to discuss call to detail.

period record million, the same we investment a in Kyle. income achieved total $XX.X In XX.X% you, increase Thank XXXX. over of QX,

effective was portfolio the on again QX once strong at XX.X%. for Our yield

$X.XX prepayment period million million the fee first quarter. with prior income share, share prior Our core the the to an investment yield, increase per which for consistent $X.XX same per $XX.X XX% the basic of year. income was Net excludes XX.X%, basic of quarter or was in $XX.X mostly or and compared

undistributed coverage share. XXX% approximately per quarterly income is or of million represents $X.XX income investment $XX distribution, net and our Our our

with equity investment of average Our X.X%. platform strong income continues to net for investment average net on based over total our and assets shareholders generate returns income over XX.X%, ROAA ROAE on of based

as $XXX XX, of March December from XX, was of NAV $XXX million increased As XXXX. million, XXXX, our which

grow QX, $XX.XX XX, end share per December Our at enable of as Gerry quarter award $XX.XX net from call. in discuss share to which this corresponding was issuance later our NAV the per NAV in that per the The per decrease will decreased that to was of XXXX. well detail as continue the share to of primarily us in depreciation unrealized share more as stock restricted platform attributed

our Under we ATM $XX.X an million in program in QX, to premium at NAV portfolio raised all growth. our proceeds, to ongoing approximately accretive fund

million we in capacity had liquidity March $XX $XXX undrawn unrestricted million, of cash of As our total comprised credit flow. under $XXX facility of million and XX, and XXXX, cash of

$X.X $X.XX per benefits and joint or income share co-investment realize the our QX interest, to dividend venture, of continue to We of provided BDC. fee which the in million

$XXX During of to the sheet revolving XXXX, assets off-balance And as accretive provides management. This shareholders. credit venture capital of under joint the quarter, returns our also XX, more incremental for and its than March have vehicle expanded growth million facility.

raised ladder. of notes extending At current we $XXX remain of million debt, quarter, $XXXX balance of is unsecured the believe currently We sheet side million $XX intend debt mature we ] over XX% repay enhancing the We appropriate, liquidity [ million ] further position right [ with managing funding that our the the in $XXX.X and sheet. XXXX, (sic) consistent end mix, balance May. our maturity unsecured and our million to in is and which

to unsecured having in and we during was cost with Our lower of from weighted interest at rate. a to prior access benefit X.X%, line quarter continue rate average debt low-fixed debt period market of

they the the Our outstanding liquidity fact net Both manage XX. debt which a our position leverage be as strong and marketplace. in ratio, was to leverage principal flexibility X.XXx on hand, with represents strong targeted range within were and opportunistic Trinity our cash pipeline less March provides the of operating

performance discuss platform Harder, in I'll more COO, detail. now portfolio turn over our and our the call to Gerry to Gerry?

At loans, equity portfolio QX, of basis, end of Michael. investment a size, on and the X.X% you, quarters with geography. type, composition diversification X.X% The our cost our XX.X% prior Thank portfolio warrants. industry secured consistent equipment consisted transaction across XX.X% and remained of with total financing,

across cost. segmented representing industry the is XX our insurance, of exposure, industry categories portfolio portfolio with XX.X% at finance Our and largest

driven investments industry in new this in sector was the companies in Growth X quarter. by portfolio

largest next respectively. representing cost, the at Our and concentrations, XX.X% and industry technology, technology green space portfolio our of X.X%

including devices, up XX.X% diagnostics basis. our on tools of total a made portfolio and related biotechnology collectively Life cost industries, and medical sciences tech, care health

Lab, As on portfolio of the Inc. end and portfolio financing Rocket X.X% debt basis. USA, total represents and of of our debt to QX, is our our largest of a X.X% cost

basis. Our represent debt largest total on of collectively cost a our XX portfolio XX.X% investments

of on on performing portfolio fair approximately to quality remained value XX.X% of credit. with basis. stable The our portfolio credit Moving our a companies

our indicating reinforces This average average rating first the X.X% very at system last rating Trinity's performance. in credit rating line track is low quarters with based X record and strong each the rating stood rates. in loss Our X of for quarter on of X:X credit our internal with

of in nonaccrual. to credits with credit of its to remain our X our its removed was lieu number we investment. basis. election total bankruptcy QX our cost in change fair Quarter-over-quarter, not Core was on common and companies emergence a on portfolio debt in from Scientific QX, nonaccrual consistent X reduced following from stock QX The receive a and both but from tiers lowest value of shares did

However, credit was status. nonaccrual to added one additional

the the QX portfolio, $XX function value per earlier related of our approximately of a net due within prepared growth million mentioned his depreciation asset unrealized as Out is of Michael expenses mentioned million in to depreciation as in above. approximately platform $X unrealized the well remarks, As to in in credit in decrease share was portfolio. single the

unrealized the fair decrease for positions, was and portfolio slightly common price of our shareholdings Core traded equity approximately Scientific. our quarter. value depreciation Additionally, the of the of due a X share was up these Outside debt million for the publicly $X of in balance to in

total companies equipment weighted of on entire debt over-levered position our our is $XX.X in a a of end, and XX% our at portfolio leans nonaccrual loan in healthy fair just sits the under are both. by generally average even our X.X% At not At service or of The total backed was of if that the total to value credits loan-to-value portfolio. representing first position. quarter of had demonstrating principal XX%, the million, debt, portfolio first are outstanding enterprise, position not end our QX, approximately

team to overall continue both our company veteran remind of approach In our work vigilant has portfolio that to portfolio find professionals when focused on investors made shareholders. and closing, asset that benefit quality. our to take to and resolutions dozens tirelessly solely the management and investment Trinity necessary, of like of who portfolio the health up are a I'd They companies

line time, the -- questions. like Operator? At open for this we'd the to question open

first [Operator Riley. with question take B. Rowe Instructions] We'll our from Bryce

Is picking activity well about to start unfunded progressed you've wanted just go working years -- so? that up, from the the that the know, I comments of made picking of here last up Maybe you've market I at there just so. Trinity don't as of the last, Or again, or the the up? as kind couple broader over function or been seen with we've your capabilities I a year you guess, a levels over on

Yes.

from we've office, off-site Diego San I covering recruited last So are night business multiple these our different sales got with an And warehouse years. people just our financing, lending. life that tech X XX science, back lending, equipment professionals over verticals, team in

said. yes, the what business. then of the they lot of XX-plus of building very tons to business, is be against who do. you them. they're fired also veterans, at years seasoned The wouldn't want out a up. most of it are very good what And to excited, people diversification And great our They're I opportunities. speaks it competing exactly them, experience, there of It's

have venture grow and just We continued to doing beyond technology above loans.

We businesses, in are products, seeing business multiple we verticals. have and those different growth multiple

pipeline So now. it's exciting we've the forward. active going right is had, and yes, This looking really robust it's most very ever

Kyle, And of to against that sheet. -- think there's the planning side you lot the that a go of if needs balance right about on of backdrop, kind the

speed try debt bit little a sheet, guess the here. kind of you with JVs the debt RIA equity How I steps up would side you've raised, you've to assume the do some You've about some of right raised and kind getting some is that the got right a think balance Are being take of taken going of managing markets and that to point. open to this you And some at are in for lock balance especially advantage rates I with the sheet? side financing interest being bit higher? and

We're not [indiscernible] of the market.

opportunistic, to going and we're efficient be we're makes to in it can. going and the to raise way equity we So debt as most sense

the bond saw think recently. I did that deal with you we that

a -- It's growth one mystery is should each to accretive trying But this conversations going ATM. have to efficient that to those be Again, to see do start You we the we're really on be not we point. with this way a for investors. raise with capital. what it of at

We don't need steady and now, public quarters for reporting company I for straight the here. are shareholders, growing times. XX future the dividend you increasing a to of returns XX predict

laid out and and we're we're how have it. what where we're doing We doing going

raising it as not That is an -- It sense. your diluted, for capital no have. AUM that see zero want to makes growth. has we're not shares So BDC. I sense sake the investors internally shares which makes managed don't my the same of

going that we to and raise build team debt, and and and the We're way then capital. And for continue raise equity So we're to or opportunistically. it in sheet going to and good debt extent going If has investors. raise doing returns makes our work to share, raise that's put it to We're to the a to it's good, keep to we're take that. accretive ability deploy for sense going investors. -- build grow equity We're the to market to balance it's can opportunistically. going

Kyle Jefferies. We'll go next Joseph to with

fall last regional the we're are now given were give where to on the in kind if point year in back thinking environment out call that the given us we year, from, just it, competitive update expertise year we're of but Just venture, at and where an kind of bank your out? this we

competition. So I less been there's think

been talking less about business, competition. venture it's you're our If

returns. seen You've

equity start dollars from to seen venture firms. flow You've

time, I you're deployment back were levels, standpoint. XXXX right, historic from to levels, the think at a which

deals. to funnel, companies. to -- our continue deals those of down. the We've of We've sure the the underwriting, runway just top of are tied we've flow. and fund from us percentage increase making funding standpoint, We right seeing in the deal threshold amount testament more funding for venture-backed up top barrier of seen a seen actually a That's funnel, the we're companies to go

the valuations gotten of sure couple But have they at than are making that We've great there investments on are tighter are the in much that support. growing these a years they face of now, we're headwinds. lower investments making equity These companies ago. the right saw

So we are seeing growth.

seeing some are banks. little competition, competition, bit say, We I'd the a less particularly from

credits Trinity. opportunities kind get have some have back alternative pulling swim for bit, bank financing, financing to little that and that creating the upstream a open might I to are been before of that's think us more even like they're higher to able quality now of idea bank

shifting know, those give kind credit, Got track companies it. where are of versus, a versus things relatively stable rates for And just the adapted you Very growth a rate helpful. ago But months then us guys it, to all metrics X year and I sense like seems environment. just you are have trending the don't the ago? to highlighted call

were I about? talking about is our talking yields, core think you that you're

I -- about talking was said I apologize. it I No, broadly.

stable portfolio want that year and sense to, at call months companies to get You or guys ago just it, how for a growth but a rates ago? X mentioned compares it's

Okay.

Ron, that? Sorry, Yes. on to you Kyle. do want touch

Kundich Sure. here. Kyle, Ron

still we're his growing, lending companies. As focused the growth-stage Kyle mentioned The are and funnel companies active. healthy seeing companies. growing answer just not companies on of on -- companies I of that very top now, at flat-to-nongrowth clip. in a the relatively they that We're are We're all is sizes. at shapes focused We're are the mean, to a

the the broadly mixed, laser-focused is growth speaking, on we're So stage. industry but

banking portfolio our that of made now investments of majority up made The is volatility. Yes. post

out investments the looking in putting wins, we're and into. way a those have and you're capital the figured grow to companies So are perform that companies at

investments lot haven't made we really for them. those things changed So a of since

next to We'll go with Vilas Abraham UBS.

should look Just in it this mix mentioned, finance. at like throughout think going be of pipeline is we loans, quarter-by-quarter? of million looks just We about terms it you wondering million to kind was $XX of that about I Is the venture kind the QX, year? on opportunistic mix. Or more $XX equipment

how just So level. in -- got We're out that some high specifics, sticking I'll to. this we are give We advance. an well more I'll We've let maybe plan I'll start but Gerry feel AOP very achieve We strategic like year. the to annually, look deploy, to pipeline to they're on much about quarterly, each for needs of what like those going plan verticals, that it. we're

And so it's not opportunistic. just

we it's They Gerry? what deploy. they need has Now -- on. being to margin their they exactly that, spend. We're know exactly I know they're opportunistic. add not can they each these it. verticals business Do mean to what own of We're just just contribution you winging to want not focused

Vilas, I be the XX% or life warehouse. level, to mean, in of in year somewhere we're ought maybe high XX% Yes. between the sciences and across at lending XX% tech XX% XX% the to asset-based equipment, and deployment and in looking at a then to so or

posting the And signal within on is life we a is pushes. on just what blocky, and at this annually, you wrong happen strong. of be high So based the level that you so given to a what sciences largest percentages get level. quarter, can see also in deployments, our annual very versus will right? It But but equipment lending tech quarter close

a investment deployment to on side kind able be of anything there in to your is of potential that as do the come healthy later line eyeing may may of a then last of into years to And over venture the the not have companies lending be you of you do? of that you sight Okay. have year gives you'll on the or sense that there on that as this that couple optimism side, opportunities? market Like may quality

Do for mean you potential investments?

yes. investments, Potential

we're have is I seeing the what We're right? later-stage IPO particularly opportunity. Well, a you're kind leading there do because for remained who And exit-type lot private, They're of of up a companies, lot up. window think seeing internally, I doing companies about externally to having venture open different hoping mostly or financings that think that side, it. companies on we with debt conversations start Yes. so to

opportunity, think new XXXX. exit new that opportunities is is is So that, towards which I you're new leading which what for a seeing creating of investment kind

your on I you I just new commentary wondering were mentioned there more kind you think to NextCar. alluding you Okay. prepared in just any was And if sense. a nonaccrual, seems credit Makes on of a that's one was there there you're it cautious you company. at of give given could cost one seeing, more than your bit XX% what the is of about like same have the looking market remarks, peers

there any provide color on is about So there to can that? you how think

to our that. quarter. mark And Yes. we this, outcome And try to follow profitability our NextCar in and to do of We collaboration experience have happen just third-party process-oriented like methodology. portfolio staff I doing management a -- for a so valuation we're weighted to rigorous mean be very use repeat going lean heavily on And scenario collaboration. our often methodology, third-party right? analysis. rigorous we to we're quarter-on-quarter. going We the the in very this this We of

tell can account in I industry. years' you the experience senior that XX with And our portfolio is XX, managed manager by most banking

very that and to quarter-on-quarter. to going sees it we're it. process as We're following he call getting be third-party he's So collaboration, consistent in going

[Operator Instructions]

We'll KBW. Johnson go to next Paul with

intra-quarter sort extend you're that you loan equipment warehousing, In be sizes borrower? quarter, periods, the of any for limit much during from Or any to loans sort of kind whether on I how like reporting mean, credit when guess, verticals kind willing essentially are platform, of going or over given the like it take you you do the of leasing, terms hold you're I of any to limit to have single whether it's have -- or on how willing guys any making I much guess in BDC? what of any the

So of I historically, we've think tried X% that stay to assets. below total

Trinity. any the significantly threshold. I of deal that's we're for that. We average, to But don't one than much want think kind cause below volatility too lower

the within we're going granular and verticals or -- continue portfolio add with really to to take the very And so then down no ability a diversified one can the us have you across company to verticals having to Gerry. that diversified

we're growth-stage to additional add, as the do That's platform very approach to increasing further this at we our by products by the to sizes, providing intend to not companies and I'd Yes. and we thoughtfully, value right? expand our Trinity, not take. going look but hold grow

So X% mentioned that line. Kyle

level not see think X%, that about that's I right, continues the when talk expand. sheet. can BDC you total over as platform to drop, time, aggregated And the our at balance across holdings at we the that

Got the platform guys then to you the you're eventually. that. the continue And grow, it. with Appreciate building JV as and out RIA

teams guys where underwriting a pretty just kind out up of point into where under kind AUM you've you to a gets And business. have since building was of there? of verticals is these built the come maybe maybe distinct headcount kind point teams growing there has start underwriting you curious, to think You're build or the each I -- some of headcount Obviously, from and the business space. you scale been certain of fully fast

I continue with start we we're going mean, trying do managed has cost ratios. do, as not you'll build And our I expense efficiencies, BDC what internally seeing get ratios, ended which The of to in some scale. and some reached are So right? to scale. to so, We to you think is efficiencies

sheet. do should it how before, a to money point and about not own going a can we're sheet We we our We way now does be long before on we're how we ceiling again, an BDC. a we're to off-balance off deliver internally this We include doing what hit at activity. now said shareholders balance for RIA. That at have And managed -- it. not go manage I what the just it misread

and are for cetera. fee interest to and and income, the balance beyond have income multiple sheet fee been our generating financings, above intending loans off equipment off can more We we we quarters generate et now generate

to where We're get we team significantly we And growth. this capable now. to past what right for sake see to? We're not going The number are of. this going so is what the grow scale at of can

plan have on a a from very honed achievable standpoint. in very diversify. return investors. and X-year way And accretive then are growth think just that's a in And We is good further we for not that that we

and that I our I model for about great generating income. think loans, just beyond above new generating with income that's talked that, fee

But have specific to risk, we diversification diversify verticals, portfolio also the think so have numbers ability right? we're to but And I for is answer on way mitigate company, and the accretive and the further public some -- growing with the are of you, creates a a way which really we And as do our don't which grow a investors. ball. for to multiple portfolio, I across going that's not a in eye we that's and good it

with Casey Compass to next Point. go We'll Alexander

RIA? update and launch wondering any Just of the the on funding

So been talking that QX, and Casey. about capital is we've deploying in target, still the

We'll go now Fargo. Wells to Finian O'Shea with

on new have you heights -- earnings understanding net Can your portfolio, about But growth your well to as XX% or whatnot. income out pretty and of loss business. of a lending rate the below NII. at over SOFR or Question for discussion there's scaling talk lot consistently the been expected you originating

thoughts we should how So you seeing the there portfolio market, forward? rate loss going in today's of have and what think updated

is... a The our loss the basis very company, loss in XX I X been -- years, publicly course, of loss Well, the exact pull you world I rate. rate as up XX consistent rate reporting and have been mean for can think of has Mike, points. maybe those,

XX basis points.

points. basis XX

Okay.

It's than less I Sorry. what thought.

warrants losses keep intend for investors. been get we We The rate for a years. out what that been just gains, those we've seen doing have via little to We've We consistently and low. play deliver upside upside able to XX and that they investments in keep our loss that offset those realized doing.

do loss I why not should increase. that see rate for So reason any

and we not underwriting our on changed. invest how or Our evolved has thesis

our so potential think time, with upside And right and should warrants. with interesting And some really dramatically stay over increasing, particularly that that I valuations now Fin. this on creates season steady,

making there's think I the some and so starting that hopefully we're investments the And here today. upside baking see long-term to we're with plan into

We'll go Nolan to Christopher Ladenburg with Thalmann. next

comments total which little is to funding appreciate particularly risk so of a XX% bank, that's in number a to let's your is a like your understanding better of a for funding? that? risk bit. a XXXX, And maturities in forth. XX% for on base, risks like and I'd mitigating how in but you I'd my that no debt on the I -- have around XXXX about single mitigating get your a to borrowings calculation. turn You its With you're credit facility got company, profile of my thoughts one roughly commercial-related loans like accounts estimate talking the for And investments. which get

here. a market. the Michael we I just into unsecured about talk to why wanted bit went

of laddering there. our going that I really was a on other approach pleased whether the have out KeyBanc, we XX quarter, in in we think again, in maturities. We're to with it's secured our the past or were with that size. And consistent revolver tap to And the market, execution that continue deal it unsecured. and banks

and facility across that. in So facility. X upsized the banks the we're happy having joint that a JV through additional liquidity the venture Also, we diversified across

that long So then term, to debt sources, as under look vehicles a adding at funding sources. risk-mitigant we equity. And of our to the diversify multiple that RIA and flexibility funding

maturing of plan the Is mature? to notes kind Great. with secured borrowings replace these

question? repeat you the Sorry, can

you these Are secured going notes unsecured mature? to more use Yes. funding as

increasing leverage. definitely CLO an a lot and of securitizing a use in seen our peers that's us. We've for opportunity We've our structure Yes, discussions. been for

currently And current again, think revolver is different through XX our and have we important. borrowing that I having additional with leverage But or in our in current revolvers we're -- future. think the the in banks sources lending expanding range room I operating that I in. our the ability syndicate across our discussions think diversifying

banks. having actually be We've those before strategic. point we close -- mentioned Chris, that relationships was banks that banks that multiple in The XX and We growing. other have bank. It's all one about there, had want diversified got of key exposure you with to I across to think, syndicate. We've

appears we time. have that it additional at And this questions no

of our look call for just you Well, forward August. Trinity of your Okay. quarter participating great the next to -- updating We day. everybody our we're really Appreciate first Capital. in thank Have and we listen, call like to on a in today. rest results, in investment proud and interest look your