Maiden (MHLD) 11 Nov 172017 Q3 Earnings call transcript

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Maiden Holdings Third Quarter 2017 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. And as a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Mr. Noah Fields, SVP of Investor Relations. begin. may you Sir,

Officer; thank Pat XXXX joining on Earnings have Ltd. in Chief today and Chief Schmitt, Maiden's Officer. President Financial the today of Third we Also Executive Maiden's Raschbaum, Quarter Conference today Art with you morning Karen us our is for attendance for call along Haveron, Good Call. Reinsurance Presenting Maiden

to that future presented risks the events like files differ actual company on here XX-K I events, the statements we from with the would from to forward-looking a on note to could statements time the These to other begin, quarterly of to you are report and XX-Q. Securities performance regarding annual results and contains specifically documents today cause current Commission, financial information and or projections our and future Exchange reports future time company. the of these or uncertainties Form Before that materially on subject the number company's refer expectations. expectations We Form the and based are

XXXX common the corresponding to references in I diluted our financial Please of results will that turn the data filings and call also about Investor Some quarter operating certain to share those will on Maiden's performance may well comments the found note metrics the with comparative reconciles period will and Relations to today's as Art. to third as share measures and measures refer discussion the GAAP to XXXX. information that news SEC located both release all stated, to over and on the now of basis include reference our website. our otherwise in in today are be discussions non-GAAP company's in a unless relative Maiden's in

unprecedented call. area, for quarter of level quarter Thank entire activity. industry financial welcome be unfortunately our offer This impacted. we the those deepest one challenging and Good our given life, loss and been the a brought earnings you, has morning and all a third activity of injury to to course have substantial of to catastrophe past This Noah. proved wide hardship across sympathies

we late million Maiden, $XX for catastrophe the million estimate of loss was For our a but in our range September, reported estimate more conservative preliminary to quarter, as results million. reflect $XX $X refined and

our this losses quite that of this will point, As we from events. support level feel known anticipated be sufficient confident these and to

development, by period industry primarily size, seen significant losses significantly Despite non-catastrophe catastrophe compared results As one from significantly from this segment. most given the basis, commented the and AmTrust and level our were Maiden's the published severity the impacted process prior oriented to Reinsurance claims catastrophe emanating development when distortions that that loss have Within we've is a comfortably changes created relative modest tolerance relatively of we've market historical the of very participants. expect, would patterns. segment, aggregate relative events, a previously and our on estimated magnitude loss than our events value for focus, smaller despite within

as throughout influencing are these quarters activity, the audit quarter the began as process given last the enhanced time the patterns should normalize that do much last and of to changes we're prudent loss in of observed changes many believe reflect prior several We period their increased result, recognize these development. improvements year. and these Although emergence initiatives, it's a in the we believe validating substantial they believe implementation which we claim over observed through operation and

quarter recognized inception-to-date historical reinsurance of that the was development the $XX assumed on shortly, Relative on the detail total the historical provide will on results, development premiums an prior to million. significant basis Despite Karen the from profitable with segment While more challenges from period amount relatively contracts our modest. a AmTrust is our remain a and bit largest basis. the we've recent AmTrust development in client, realized of the prior

announcement their Amtrust's in the it's of appropriate recent development actions. I regarding loss the prior quarter, their in to briefly actions third think reserve Maiden's period Given context discuss

has pre-XXXX Maiden, their to development been the portfolio, responds of to. development portfolio For to AmTrust is our which portion than and assumed adverse specific reserve AmTrust cover rather entire the historical

with do reinsure we any that their portfolios not associated the acquisitions. example, of For reserve are post-XXXX

liability liability, reinsure Lloyd's other the hospital of of number specific not elements as as program elements such more a business, their other professional components, do we as their European well Additionally, than portfolio. their business, volatile of historical

contract us have more reserve we that their actions actions the quarter That and the the to years, our several focused losses impact overall the segment don't better of the to we versa. on and analysis have to that importantly, and modest is any view sole correlation take reflect impact our development. of adverse components results prior said, with for around the we vice of and completely independent that fact, of In their do continue only level Reinsurance writings about use reserve we'll that Diversified necessarily expand reported it we AmTrust factors, of believe these as of Because last direct segment, is XX% development important learning in currently does a relatively the we've own period do booking. be their our they And understand segments as in. we in elements its catastrophe reserve it all basis a or participate always of of their XX%, of analysis for reinsured all development. For reinsure, that of cover clients, their AmTrust, the it performed in specific their of not how

non-AmTrust emanating we've brand do excess our earnings, the excess you strong favorable commercial number modest underwriting line, a prior may which For period impact quarters, repurchases provision, loss Sandy modest and current services and quarter, business, and several terminated observed in which, trends with net a profit, elevated in for Bermuda, primarily significant growth will profitable count U.S. underwriting underwriting a cat in prior activity results. loss higher-than-anticipated been category, Consistent of trends last in the the international These as addition our That last and continuing U.S.-based and gains, insurance of other XX the superstorm has returns year continued recall a reflecting segment related and level a primarily elevated to our we our active insurance we both share claims more observed activity, our a to over amount our stable from growth unrealized in assets of mask solutions the months. the the including XX experienced growth ultimately Europe, strengthen reflecting in quarter. lines loss also in share our activity. activities auto investment catalyst business, and Overall, in property underwriting invested generated of surplus return reflects of development to reduced we losses in modest strengthening activity in business the was stabilization catastrophe of platform solid development. the of our in as to from a Diversified of underperformance

net reflects year-end as prior impact shareholder today future in at from price net board it prior performance. at period the $XX.XX, Despite both provide share prior development. the For past, share We and as more our dividends believe confirmed as activity. dramatically it's evaluating the partially loss the price, Karen strengthen Maiden's repurchase we reaction of to development. the the position the is was the the loss losses period this the common which well is the we share capital earnings, and have development, on development, cat of discount shortly. to remain period is down supportable XXX%, prior the period losses our both $XX.XX but unrealized is the committed dividend reflecting with will necessary as development. development it's gains well validate higher reflects period which period offset attributable that and quarters, the reflect the all prior level in value reported of our factors, unrealistic, our investment million an overall don't for of We preferred $XX ratio detail -- portfolio in which stated management, prior Book liquidity I our but and share by a Clearly, common as but common of That as to current quarter, and view recent our and shareholders combined week. that XXXX, agree, level quarter, a $XX underwriting after including Through obviously resulted expected million. three respond presupposes our forward absolute remain current per a stabilize net first to company's obligation and

earlier, with however, prior written gross gross to mentioned quarter, comparison from premiums premiums XX% segment, the quarter reduction third Overall, for was particularly XX%. premiums gross Maiden year. year-over-year, premiums across business activity written XXXX. were down were in seeded In segment. for were the Diversified in the quarter of written aggregate, strong up the the down As significant reflecting our a the AmTrust for quarter in the Beginning overall the quarter development Diversified I in

large rates, one we the You reflected may accounts, impact U.S. this year, of recall that recorded which growth terminated slower a earlier several involving commutation.

development successful the in the of auto offset reflects U.S. a client relationships expansion existing area strong in account our in quarter remains business, which year with growth. earlier fully new along the Third reduction. Personal have of focus

that evaluating. are upcoming As a we X, the there renewal for prepare of currently opportunities XXXX, we're season, number significant account January

increased we that impact capital believe of would non-cat-focused and believe changes a we certain it's any market see of to that see business. model, geographies direct across our for lines do business will we that have While too support early on demand impact

our the find grow continue and profitably competitive, While maintain to-date discipline. remains opportunities portfolio market we to to pricing

added revenue selection. also a business, this reflects and Our pipeline and new original strong significantly existing of solutions then me, business, we opportunities targeted interest believe non-OEM office of a modest been the relationship relationships. business This risk as overall our and -- the modest, affinity In the expansion from regional new international has growth, capital while and our be strong stronger remains relatively level growing commercial growth European pricing we account auto continue in relationships insurance have quarter, excuse enhance from remains insurance developing written a this to development. manufacturer under services profitable we in our chiefly experienced finally, line market. insurance in solid and in client well what activity year a we as of see quarter year-over-year new from to And equipment of relatively portfolio we

that news premium segment, was quarter's gross September been from the down several of segment We programs growth, with emanating rate XX%. AmTrust had drop significant as along the are occurring. the organic of with X, a a both Within written terminated slower anticipated of program which prior

written of from a of addition, changes and its for AmTrust the to reflects XXXX time in made specialty the the in In of business programs specialty extended in the small cession in first warranty program businesses. mix risk premium the by commercial and in premium XXXX, series acquisitions decline and

rates diversified overall, as needs Schmitt, last well quarter. Karen? our we quarter, over the on we Maiden continued and largest growth and opportunities turn to more moderate M&A the who'll should continue growth us by and focuses our like client Chief as AmTrust underwriting indicated AmTrust disciplined Officer, serve a strategic significant that portfolio Maiden, I'd segments the to we now carefully remain our believe As the anticipate and AmTrust. ongoing for reduction of Financial provide activity. for to on detail in the build that various call Overall deceleration a continue the platforms our we of reinsured portfolio Karen to support of

Art, you, and good Thank morning.

was or common attributable $X.XX of million premiums common share all the earnings Last common a shareholders result share. per to operating non-GAAP XXXX. of income from Maiden compared loss in to premiums stated, shareholders XXXX the non-GAAP comparative corresponding of $XXX gross $X.XX quarter $XXX and or from AmTrust $X.XX by warranty mix commercial new said common net growth of million. decrease of to a with $XX gross for diluted in the Maiden's XXXX changes are reported or in AmTrust per relative premiums the on Maiden's $X.XX to net The business. significantly by time the Diversified compared million, existing was $XX risk attributable XX% the comments XX%. Reinsurance premiums $XXX data million, Noah segment, basis otherwise a unless share AmTrust common will of program of result third the a million operating specialty to common written period refer million $XX in to $XXX share a and an extended third of gross million small loss As acquisitions earlier, of per programs written written made In The in and references XX% In decrease million drop Reinsurance to segment as of segment, written share relationships night, gross per influenced XXXX of cession to development from $XX the or specialty client and first share. quarter businesses. increase premiums were and totaled in XXXX, business in its the series

cash million, of year-to-date increase administrative a the to was by Diversified of was basis, loss outpace the we quarter earned lower. of due totaled quarter XX.X%. On to quarter. Diversified of administrative written compared third impacted business, underwriting $XX believe million the or The administrative of the ratio The XXX.X% to Commission ratio third $XX hurricanes other to premiums third quarter and the compared $XXX hurricane ratio adjustment expect due third future. and general The No earned X% The XXXX Harvey quarter AmTrust expected foreseeable run than AmTrust to were Maria the of category to do Net quarter XX% the a In The $XXX should Net losses XXX.X%. and million up million, $XXX at segment, combined the XXXX XX% ratio the quarter growth expense in [activity segment we Reinsurance and $X Reinsurance decreased We $XX million premiums compared X.X%. and catastrophes X% million reported in the Maiden for increased lower XX% X.X%. or million. expenses Net points with earthquakes. indicative quarter. other losses X%. our ratio in million third was Reinsurance premiums million, to had the expense unchanged loss Diversified non-operating quarter expenses the do, general were expected XX% was impact development net not million in and of totaled of $XXX the a of quarter for volume the segment growth increased XX.X% loss the XX.X% XX.X however, higher AmTrust XXXX Irma. while The hurricanes segment $X the General third during $XXX relative XX%. segment of growth for in expect for Reinsurance third ratio. points rate. segment with lower. The this and prior and in to million premiums from and expenses quarters While with from a $XX is of losses exposures the million totaled previous XX.X% quarterly that program third to year for disciplined to earned acquisition X in quarter The combined decrease million and $XX in respectively. prior year with as results and Harvey XXXX million. AmTrust $XX to net or Irma. AmTrust were quarterly of moderation reported of ratio Reinsurance $XXX development expense XXXX the third the XXX.X% recorded diversified loss added segment, fee compared were adding compared the was loss ratio XX.X% are in Most

in combined the year and XXXX, year quarter. impact would third the the development in third the in XXX.X% been segment was prior segment addition, despite Diversified Reinsurance of Reinsurance $X hurricanes development, After Diversified of In breakeven. essentially million the prior have quarter ratio

was developing business underwritten investment level a Importantly, run of European achieved accounts in increased prior development our of our underwriting U.S. the net in in in $XX development, third prior Diversified of from mainly business off general associated and from Bermuda the the predominantly and ratio expense combined segment combined ratio. XXX.X% combined the Reinsurance underwritten year to the impacted commercial Reinsurance Solutions small program year was modest quarter specialty The XXXX compared AmTrust higher we by segment drove with portfolio, AmTrust liability. level on A Capital of portion XX.X%. an profit. ratio businesses, million

$X.X The of category quarter, duration in quarter of with cash, net X.X Investment of addition, the of In X.X% of to years X.X excluding mainly the increase average a investable was duration to continued including grow $XXX the average were non-operating weighted with was and assets third million, the reported quarter, $X XX%. purchased years. end portfolio, development. the prior the an the fixed of with year as total million total we XXXX income yield at average on assets, of an income of of X.X investment an XX million compared of of billion At cash, time $XX September securities duration the other had of In and earnings years. duration yield years. invested average liabilities same X.XX% X.XX

were Shareholders' year-end. was up assets per billion September of was compared to $X.X X% XX and share September to to remains government totaling million focus X% value billion, in X% corporate investment XXXX. at at or common $XXX remains $X.X September lower quarter, to year-end as higher Cash equity December XX and Book XX $XX.XX Total increased $X.X than billion at or the at XX. Our $XXX than XXXX. compared end million sponsored compared third $XXX Cash flow million. strong $XXX million enterprises. cash high-grade equivalents year at on debt

as confident is the dividend. remain impact strong we our Cash development flow available and does equity. non-cash year mentioned, period maintaining prior about Art not remains quarterly As

In earnings. the board of profitability. addition, upon based dividend future reported future the recent believe are results rather And than we expected rate indicative sets not do earnings

that segment are We to they encouraged have commercial relate the movements our auto. U.S. Diversified in moderated, particularly reserve as

appropriate as at common Maiden a that place is to share in just $X have market plan viewed third creates Maiden in opportunistically back for had share During active the -- million of is common from per for over buy shares efficient shares the an the longstanding $X.XX capital X repurchase buyback repurchased time-to-time, has Maiden event an quarter, of price million value may book share. But dislocated value. the we by company when not shareholders. maintaining the flexibility to from shares shares Maiden's our repurchase program. our value structure it average

September additional XX, we share approximately comments. call some of to our remaining now repurchase in Art have will $XX I for turn authorization. the million As over

the non-catastrophe loss appropriate activity. Thank you, a on is third risk-based shown doubt participants fourth upward always quarter be in market pricing Karen. pricing And market catastrophe the in will The many developing reflected pricing. retrench impact trends of for in the Maiden, significant reinsurance pricing focused is rate as cost to market period reinsurance the of be regardless while We've market change catastrophe of as levels, clearly remains At appropriate there's when absorb question both with to conditions. our the the is activity cannot responding risk discipline whether reinsurance the that the little and increased achieved. reinsured the

growth underwriting them our that strong our with through appropriate focus of approach, of and clear responded offer for solutions. as the as Maiden perspective, strengths, increases far it's by in variability react influenced our while said, these trend to so an our focus returns Again, and we need should portfolio. many expect our disciplined benefited specialty stable done it our entire ensure do cycle. all rate strengthening. as underwriting quarters we've risk-based providing less remains From drive a for we M&A risk-based across within not focus highly our and portfolio. to some pricing all for such segment, prior market needs see rate our with The the on conditions. to capital mentioned which focus that has our of occur. AmTrust allowed we'll of to In our lines, core specific market across deliver year clearly course, and do, significant bulk benefit we've earlier, the continued It's providing pricing declines also the in Maiden in development targeted efficient appropriate. it's auto. for underwriting from to growth platform, XX Should with we recoverables on shareholders prior activity. this in seek observed in early that recent our segments historical to we've pricing. orientation a client-focused us moderation rate And been prepared to adverse development for I growth did observed access prior have market to adverse reinsurance the competitive period course the giving too That maintain in maintaining and course, and country of to quarters, our of have periods emanating We single some market we've period with reinsurance and will as out of commercial note regional that clients, significant commercial years, comfort portfolio, has our target in conclude of a auto operating the a emanated we for serving collateral the market, on specialist responsive important actions its consistent, business Historically, line several Of of and support, last relationships diversified our never companies, over trend responsible increasing of leveraging clients from loss anticipate long-term of that be us is level that moderation that of regions however, also

responded long-term have performance. last the our processes most quarters, profitability, a underwriting avoid also undermining not future. we long-term influenced the recent maintain segment, several while significantly we've the profitable and significantly similar have relationship, over forward, management the quarter's AmTrust to development our changed in risk a which, where Going In prior our to occurrence period

be we the develop some see could earlier, trends we'll significant better processes a these context I underlying and performance. future prior identified in period historical continue claim indicated the in of continue that improvements development, of of As and to understanding

As to in sense forward, In while that transaction operating prompt of should a in never the forward, we committed are any that reinsurance we development and past, that can't there prior make be potential help actively stabilize are the underlying the a solution, for trends results but no solutions be and will going course, to we've period course, to manner. business response of our we'll say profitability recent of in could guarantee transparent commented makes volatility, shareholders. reinsurance best future will the the can going Regardless we guided respond we sense our going by the strengthen forward. what evaluating

and exceptional to Operator, our the prepared remarks. lines This could Importantly, for performance profitability to please concludes we're you restoring delivering committed open shareholders. our Q&A.

our [Operator of Binner B.Riley. the of question Instructions]. And Randy first line comes from

that increasing it kind relates had increase Dearborn -- AmTrust Madison of and the capital just they result their done a in their more next of where equity, are a it their that transactions of position put and they've retain -- with deal particular early to may their business. year lot capital one of series and in could so that will base I in part tangible base, a

capital XX considering need months the line just kind there their -- was don't I top the you there quarter, that XX so to for but know also from made? might over looking be perspective moves for see relationship this you how strategic they've of next on to changing relative decrease developing And

certainly solution. shareholder-friendly at were if they're capital entertain kind with the don't we a any I the think, AmTrust. the capital, to but reflects would a that prospectively, our of obviously, much importantly, way to that share. we perspective, in listen proportional have of even growth grow, as go. respect, of the we that negotiate kind the a it's Diversified position Diversified important capital, increasing a we've clients' have develop our Obviously, mix. AmTrust We're to deal from mix over I to reduce but focused very need have didn't they possibility down conclude the capital. and required excess our extent would that And in on would with change and would that AmTrust, But ways to there's quarter, we need but ourselves would been that. the time that a we've as next we've more if between reduced, bleed that the rebalance share reinsurance, and shareholders with Yes, to the got some of share while a find to for quota capital we we that From an certainly an progress certainly Maiden of they important if to quota that and commented our balance certainly have customer, they to needs reduced and required but may certainly we quota it our found time relationship adequate it to always where Obviously, sometime -- in and certainly trying share use proud need less year, would take the quota think and work for time them to

development that then like additional And -- taken? think that helpful. what or I adverse transactions. adverse you about talked That's cover? share, the is the -- like talking reinsurance already would I amount you've guess quota given Is PYD What now development what about an of cover look

need a your terms to think because But I necessary specifics adverse of to a even That's quota potentially. that again, a And an be any mean, I share we don't certainly have I cover strain. of development in in question. think report. I we're view, addition something don't quota good capital share looking at

the react year already the probably cover more And in we that that's in seeing that from the that's we've greatest development things an interest we're might right an coming to we would sense, of claim taken, thinking practice, and having that's think now. to looking but something immediately. in provide what kind reason we adverse stabilize like area and looking development to deliver be assurances an cover of prior adverse of us on, terms no Again, And makes earnings. focus can ability changes something clearly, we're of I the direction. so kind our of see like development extent operating volatility certainly

Our Billingsley line Point. of of next the comes from Ken question Compass

Obviously, so full I your But want you on loss you back that ADC you how that follow losses they the up to timing recognize what go quickly, allow you charge. you -- specifically, and on of of to would picks reserve of that the force I your set said as did develop? independently fact the just And -- those AmTrust. have reevaluate does have the hand the -- to that know timing

mean, -- all, of first reflect liabilities it drip quarter to in We sort portfolio ultimate if outstanding Well, try what don't the our you believe kind out, are. will. we plan of of every I we we to don't

So terms direct and see what we activity our the reflection of in data. in reactions reserve do we what are a of

the was sort and From of of their they of to was good pretty ADC, they did why they description the perspective, market. our it kind what As it far the that think AmTrust I a to utilization as us gave at did. same kind time of information of and

we get that every loss movement. reinsure pieces us pieces review So granularity. view picks. for sub-level whether is client specific ADC But do missing us. and recovery of from to time that with if portents establish moving ADC the expected anything we'll data you spend recovery of we could as or the similar or, that we're understand we the and our necessarily believe We We determine try their and wouldn't the impact movement that will, we in a session the to

need reinsure And mix that that would AmTrust we I business. quarters would two since like don't in But AmTrust's mean going -- the in they do reinsure dollar, businesses just development you do were they how looking charges you've were how for the about vague this, it comment news just business? that you you've of least theoretically, charges does you you be looks what mean, taken match, given place. could of all at book given about there taken this million do evaluate with at of they trying anticipate own the to realize to more that some -- the don't or on was up their you the your lines that that you to that for match insure, wouldn't put you book to if as last have of you made $XX just ADC that I that dollar

and obviously, the charges listen the extent and we -- take that Ken, about it. that their time a their in does calls will out they the out on find movement something call at we Yes, seeing definitely same listen they're we to we and look definitely market

not liability For movement see time. another example, hospital this certainly any We look. liability take quarter. hospital did in they mentioned this We'll

what from business point starting the our Not we the different. take different, just take. say in are points they own year So that pretty in are our change hard we're we that it's only a match prior interested about with because reserves they up their development, different, the our setting so is but reserve's reserves, starting included of but composition to our the change

to ones example, every we a acquisition XXXX. For they that chosen loss have severity-oriented since they've not taken a more if at least or or the reserve portfolio, made, insure portfolio those premium

So us to that any on differently, any development they or kind would have development be cause started if even of for merge wouldn't necessarily pieces development those they in for they us. not

what we a other developed, understand fairly all client would our our have taken that at we granular the look pieces thing reactions say and of the at to look we Ken moving what to we've process guess Karen perspective. said, with the I the we as and feel So from communicates is but comfortable context in we've that I obviously

know I of whether that changes? law only or where is tax you would law any And this would comments negotiate potential proposed you affect a from how you on be some or could excluded tax see the proposed you just how perspective, change

active of least and a lot Well, discussions are thoughts on know lot I there s there' occur. underway, of preliminary at what might that a

to have. premature least At it's we would anything based potentially what's discussed, host there So I of of put on a are forward. options kind think being

is sense and expect business effect revealed we negotiated, it. a we'll is be more Our in read of dramatically model, terms as but that more it our of immediate obviously better us, don't to it on is that on get

underwriting probably a is lesser think a for has that impact us. little more I company company, the margin a than profound severity-oriented the less With

Instructions]. [Operator

the question is line from KBW. next Our of Shields Meyer of

one question. So

to the differential we changes Should expect historically, sort mix there AmTrust, deceleration that continue? of As expected growth favoring has been with Diversified. ratio in Diversified expense accelerating some its an and

business lower we price When the because have subsidize with low associated business, we operating we expected expected -- the of necessarily -- expenses a actual there relatively. that with loss activity, expense that we don't actual kind blended our

but So in certainly, our performance. a shouldn't you G&A, affect see moderation it might

Yes.

the seeing I has mix So excess in pro is Diversified of contracts. rata of loss you're what think that

ceding rata the So back ceding on got to like accounts, AmTrust, pro commissions company. you big to go

you don't. don't, can For excessive but typically typically loss, you you

going lower Diversified we difference. really the when and and excess since commission at biggest So ratio, the acquisition is be to expense look pro other rata expense write they That's

a helpful. that's in No, growth catastrophe Is losses Can Diversified? change the this to Okay. we're with you business? in of the book seeing give sense expected growing any there on regard

cat quite risk were the managing the exposure. of we No, actually effectively in pleased work team the at

about As assistance all we've placing have is that where we're occurrence typically Meyer, but extent the and of businesses where to on a we get contracts very clients value know is catastrophe clients make offer granular the and we sort we loss have our the on we recovery. and their that the expected mitigating talked to we fairly past, by our bother of not be limits and carefully some determine activity phones we the sure to fairly know quickly, are risk in way information in

seen good want? sense we've of significant exposure. on expansion so portfolios, we premium you actually, relative to cat pretty Karen, because a get And and our a relative basis, big things a quickly have growth, don't we fairly of not aggregated

cat causing is enter That not cat from that's not prices growth market. looking the not us to. into we're coming cat Yes, going expose business. to the We up, but are know do

because that which well, pretty our as of program, And to benefit, know the add case we that, have modest well. you as to the reinsurance losses I would AmTrust there retained Meyer, of is in

I'd like over to for no showing I'm management the any remarks. call to And back closing question further turn this at time.

for We a joining Have us future. you, you Thank in look today. the day. great everyone, forward to speaking with

and your you Ladies participation for gentlemen, does in program. today's conference. thank conclude the This

have disconnect. may a great day. now You Everyone,