UWM (UWMC) 10 May 232023 Q1 Earnings call transcript

Good morning. My name is Sarah, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the UWM Holdings Corporation First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions].

Blake Kolo, you may now begin your conference.

morning. Good Kolo, and Blake Relations. of Business Chief is Head Officer Investor This you welcome Corporation's UWM and joining Earnings the Thank us, XXXX to for First Quarter Call. Holdings

conference to we everyone Before would forward-looking like I that start, this call includes statements. remind

may this factors materially statements, morning. to For refer results release earnings forward-looking actual that information to cause more that please the about differ from we issued

the and and now turn call Mortgage. CEO United UWM will Mat Chairman over I Ishbia, Corporation of Holdings Wholesale to

come great to and out last thanking join make enjoyed I you fielding discuss time we of were first lot I thank to start and and by UWM I week, to with lot spending A together. Also days great couple and call want an of amazing the a the Blake. to questions investors Thanks, had LIVE! things was us over for the analysts able partner today. which it. event. the able broker X,XXX-plus of that who were

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as partners positions one the our success. and with how were us the everyone have for for of of uniquely see growth broker we relationships attended themselves who Hopefully, our amazing culture, able our to It's combination are to together UWM. to sauce and ingredients team. we them broker the all It's community main it's help grow happening here winning, a succeed, and at and about here the secret

and current the efficiencies, lenders. a on to technology into rest. lot and separating address moments in the market. purchase This strategy Obviously, there's time it's showing and around a quarter, a scale, are from few I for time to overall tough get the the mortgage when investment want still I going industry take winners a industry the Before business is in most

While their others are having am and today. for our to 'XX innovating beyond. growth worst, I've is than for strategy hiring, confident model never in more business the further been adjust and UWM preparing and 'XX, with I

$XX.X $XX.X overall proud more Now for very which let's guidance; get delivered quarter into purchase us. general for of volume, environment production which a is with was our and industry. in the We most importantly, rate quarter. billion the production, billion particularly metrics, been of in the purchase this high We've of end declines the the these record -- of first

at points, Our in margin also points was basis gain and XX basis of end the the quarter. higher the from guidance, XX up fourth

and business controlled have We are margin our happy with in our volume QX. both very and

government data data the was the trumps of industry quarter. I of that also to data. provide XXXX highlights quickly that This some self-reported released the some the in first HMDA is want

with in facts independent minorities. work America to a great have consumers lending. consumers XXXX full and impact on this the For positive choose average, brokers. to work about on $XX,XXX HMDA the make number brokers. it America who #X the and because single-family homes, that chose of impact with purchases for the of overall by year, on save the we These to of mortgage the looking Per goes which when positive lender mortgage at with the definition feel in refinances residential me had this proud broker the were up is of mortgage we working data, $X,XXX I'm mortgage consumers

officer some in a our of to in to consumers addition where news helping is best the mortgage to consumers, #X first once with we're website great together broker And for a benefits place country mortgage the of best the get a that The win a as that, a the are work. becoming continuing we're for the quarter, the place the in and, channel a data originator loan is is working learning supports know, we all best consumer broker. And brokers. again helping loan team. to about Findamortgagebroker.com as

pass first the comments into quarter. financials. of him, a Andrew a performance to for will the take I the want I to But deeper couple dive before on give financial

of resulting in points quarter. XX production, gain very of basis favorable for you operating of are reported which billion As value many With were the previously said, distinct and both components portfolio. I that a of margin and aware $XX.X servicing along production income MSR financials: the of numbers, loan from now mentioned, good the the X -- value MSR of the and income our the with

money. than actually, over if at write-down operating it gain XXXX, $XXX of more which to our markdown markdown by QX in reported core-wise, time, same of is there's the a did to still large. with the industry. that book at the went good million. We value we rates we our made great QX XXXX, money and But of loss higher loss. volumes, primarily in of in This Operationally, you quarter control MSR million. net in driven noncash we down made compared outside Because a a margins was rates is fair QX, And are $XXX of actually look

for going forward. UWM to doing never it and Making money we're been going has better a going success big the is profitably right forward. UWM positioned growth now continue do it And deal. to is and

client of today same that of we'll and to we be in first cycles, we liquidity, and doing saying said, in from continue are much that XXXX, With thrive of capital, were evaluate, years to now. confident place aspects again X back how where the infrastructure has right think the technology, in relationship quarter in UWM I'm are I evolve. and all to to the stronger our business. now we thing we continue so in regardless

our Andrew, it for turn to details. CFO, more to going over I'm

off is Mat. Thanks, improved quarter XXXX. as first volume the start and mortgage strong we achieved as in last loan production to compared gain half to great of margin experienced XXXX the a

margin the fair contributed improved mentioned, of MSRs. higher considering Mat in As before of profitability gain value decline to the impact the

expenses as Our to continue on cost focus moderated in QX we management. prudent

compared other our XXXX. of QX total Excluding and contributed first servicing $XX of strong declined costs performance quarter expenses expenses, interest XX% XXXX, the in or which and to million also operational nearly to core nonoperational

additional continued QX and a proceeds improve bulk in our sheet QX. MSR $XX subsequent liquidity. on end. sales on of first Net and the cash completed excess sales execute billion approximately with $XXX loans quarter, completed as X X to to We strengthen During sales excess approximated we million plans from as strip MSR quarter total MSR X our sales well in to UPB balance and servicing

In quarter. which as by our provide entered we Ginnie only addition, borrowing MSRs, along $XXX providing was the $XXX This our Mae into Fannie of to of a up $X facility facility, capacity credit, of secured up and with end of MSRs. drawn million borrowing of by secured capacity, billion of the Freddie to million MSR line the

March $XXX available self-warehouse as approximate XX, to increased the and capacity approximately available XXXX, liquidity of which secured remaining our Considering total lines from unsecured $X.X and last is of million under of billion year. our an end borrowing cash, increase credit,

wholesale both We have continued the measures balance to investments continue our market we our growing our enhance the and for to in sheet our share. believe channel allow taken strengthen liquidity will and

Mat CEO, turn Chairman I'll remarks. for Okay. closing things now back to and Ishbia, over some our

Thanks a a of want And into lot, hit points to get couple we before before Q&A, go. Andrew. I I on

aren't we First, stopping.

mortgage driving the every broker forward and continue of cycle to We community. with winning industry, the will embrace together

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quarter, to reward continue forward. appreciate and And many community. the also investor announce to I'm prospects for to said that shareholders, past, times I've the going to going do our want consecutive as we're the excited tenth of We our continuing dividend. We quarterly the us about in $X.XX

points. we addition margins our with the billion XXX to quarter, be range XX to and $XX that, $XX of between the expect production second In billion in basis to

UWM We're making winning. is income.

have We liquidity. great

to the in so been we're winning going are to now our together. moderator. to and what your Our back technology mortgage I'm the going competitors to never and culture doing questions. take strong, market. We're our it glad excited keep compared about We're to turn I've

[Operator comes Kyle Instructions] Your with from first the line question Jefferies. Joseph of

On it margins the is where obviously, in your longer a going? and for But first of quarter. quarter the us state very Game successful, to a quickly steady you margins how you where this kind front, Can obviously you see was we sense guidance. of term, nice normalized On was second terms margin -- have in give see your

But know, times LIVE! the for the lot towards. seeing I like -- to right think XXX of tough with guided that the I where I XX think quick believe I this perspective actually market, trough also, probably winning. give in similarly. which we the margins basis you being it. is, is points, thoughts, my let people more of a which times said, me Thanks you is just UWM My question. Yes. you went answered in kind Appreciate these in is so And are we're mortgage now, that to

I think see. that's you'll what

-- And is rest whether massive of out making the of to industry the of kind or it of margin to in. be rest that businesses, laying will continue they're changes that's the business that companies, other level off, will happen. people going While their

the we you next our Game And so successful, have that's a are complete with you told be what quarter. we was strategy it of continue as and for talked guiding we business where area done. exceedingly what as of always. to to kind successful And the margins And would exact we about, same do, will that's On, been control why now. that's we're and know, And we've right

And the follow-up job Obviously, then Andrew. quarter. probably balance sheet nice did and it. liquidity a of enhancing for you the guys me to Got a in

kind As kind X.X% you're forward? about nonfunding is the going rate the of about in the around this kind state and of steady thinking thinking we're environment, leverage of debt-to-equity

Kyle, Yes. question. Thanks it's the Andrew. for

foreseeable the of is X:X I likely think than think last where where quarters. several expect ratio less we'll target remain would I the for I and for maintained, the X.X:X we we've future. where XX:XXX, that's in sort that And

of question line next JMP Securities. comes Your from the Delaney Steve with

guidance, surprise. Congrats be that meeting not your on but production should a

Now futures is now? that impactful X% basis the points, or guess from, rates Fed do mean, what, and materially your what drop just think Xs for asking? volumes whatever you is Mat, XXXX, business say, as to to, how of is done expecting XXX I XX-year is hikes outlook rate to if I basis mortgage the current low how your rate I'm was And just with right impactful points, in 'XX kind well. XXX lower

Appreciate Yes. Thanks the it, question. Steve. for

XXX So we'll people on that just margins make real and chance are good explain interest quick control X% basis expectation. why in is when drop higher. 'XX, I a rates That's to multiple how If doubles that example, don't 'XX, happens. there's billion on our your 'XX, It dollars rates. our to points, on depends I'm is business to our rates, that impactful. trying

say, reporters people reporters an when it it's we're mark Now money with don't the made you're analysts, this side, the realize, lost slightly of Still you who did, going And quarter, -- silly business. still money like of take just the out looks understand this like a there, you go UWM down quarter." "Oh, about, down million. understand markdown. guys people what they the you MSR still flip the a We lot not rates $XXX just lot as because talking MSR

excessive happens, some that things. drop money points, money, when profitable Shareholders we'd could rates that of can double, could really make amount And when basis product. just of do a volume exceedingly margins go great and realize up. So XXX amount

only mark And MSR down. they're "UWM makes don't business. talking about I'm some UWM headline, money because that what know will Much loses However, money," and understand will don't they doing reporters or the sure the this go

will but and so right And of hiring. for more not massive everyone And is, of actually kind help help us because perspective money be we're It it it losing off that's actually lot lenders will laying they're yes, actually, right else. my us. now a on uptick for it a now when just providing other even will massive, people

saw, do we're quarter. the to actually guiding the you in even than in I'm And And quarter winning. as more second first volume

So a UWM. lot at of positive

other So it lot significantly, it of us whole people, help will the help a industry. but will

late And business or that. in it's it's the so more early when 'XX, all mortgage or up mid-'XX going going aren't just all to perspectives. but understand know understands much economy that the We that happening. I 'XX, from don't be, general rates too our of realizes Anyone

comes of George Bose with Your the line question next from KBW.

first grew share again, market like, grew obviously last in the it Your year. Looks quarter.

you sort you see think dial see we share As a could share do little? the dip you down On, outlook? How of like the Game programs do

think On. channel. I join. XX%, designed join help the massive a was been It's we're around On loan to to perspective, officers of joining, My share question. Good Game market running success, thousands broker pre-Game continuing XX% originators Yes.

see starting through, come to of the of through. that You're starting some been see fantastic. production It's success come to some

that wholesale XX%, from more That in think, went than I your XX% expected. being channel. the market said, was we with question However, share, we on with to

Game I stayed see, the can range, On, is Game -- our always you if with that will margin success. after said Game On in which be On, QX as massive a that after XX%

see you're your than think is point. that I to going higher it

XX%, just a about we're gain went share did. the Game range, tough market pricing. And XX%, On a XX% in XX% what from very market so to in then if massive without the just We XX%, we think

And realizing in successful. -- we stays looking we're range, it's so for -- just that XX% if it excessively the think

going that be than in it's think first to higher just the the I was in quarter. even fourth like quarter, However, it

was carrying of the losses And sort sales, Were done there the gains at value? Okay. then or MSR sales? Great. on MSR just on any that

you losses, just comparing sell on it, what depends really it you're day what It's and tough to marking to. There's tell. day some it it

loss. If then some at XX, December you're from looking be might there

looking track just each really markdown. at $XXX day it's it it. part might to don't it's you're the be it, details fair value Like is all the gains. exact deal, If markdown, I we That's some of know but million there from hard the -- we sold which on a why

tell, the obviously, of comments, amazing we reality, million if an loss, earnings quarter. take in I the from first perspective you out core a in And quarter, as had $XXX is, even the that pointed whatever number you can my better in

what sure once that guys So know talking of about, some reporters again, to I'm there's don't the you they're listening.

You'll we year, is. of lost quarter last quarter we whatever number $XXX that the million the million, $XXX this made first in say and

first year earnings, However, made first actually if you year's in we look more this quarter core money the than last quarter. at

but And on had less top I of that, volume margins and money. made we lower more still

clickbait doesn't that. doing and news understand. our people headline monitoring what that about So explain managing how we're think other We're business But beyond and stuff.

to successful and that first extremely from see that you for good perspective. quarter has it's the been So understand

comes of Faucette question next Stanley. James the line Morgan Your with from

Netter Blake on James. is for This line the

off, mortgage size business for? business lower of the where there wondering the you And are you are [indiscernible] First efficiencies origination particular any I'm expected? as market what volumes managing than in come areas

Yes.

the lower for volumes I in origination expected. would thanks come So than think question. don't

it's think a at going look year to the they're described, the manage great way from we think to going -- I've I be business. as I be and

all last the smaller and it year year mortgage so market definitely And around, than the is before. was

right size have there lenders businesses. out most tried their However, to

been pretty well scale. sized and Our has business for prepared

that the questions we're more time. -- that ago about, 'XX, the at what and to the I'm going show was so have and X prepared 'XX and for future dominance And

-- I think XXX-plus And so hired like week I people, -- we said hired this joined alone.

the we're didn't we're happen. years, And people. preparing over you're that right couple the right, We're doubling so hiring growing, if volumes for And business be I'd of that shocked this next from seeing now.

normalizes, the a portfolio, and to there as And to rising? manage risk and on are you macro than see you'll highlighted Got delinquency modifications? rates the a staffing your average. your as servicing pockets you industry are And you it. help lower where servicing portfolio think That of workouts need broader portfolio in the increase see that any environment do quick guys said, MSR loan follow-up,

No.

we were you lowest America. in at delinquency loans XXX do couple -- of We're FICO. -- just I or if we lowest still else one I a try to lowest, So XXX of the rate, everyone's look loan think The don't goes FICO XXX scores. They're else the deep of that one FICO of have say quality get data, at the our does. digging everyone still one all to delinquency scores or loans. them because Everyone rates I'll to don't

it scores or the I'll of call the have and of lowest the of one We market. lowest, in delinquency really low delinquency, the rates FICO one highest anyone

a And see else. less get answer so the being without a will than delinquency even lot profile. on no, than the less being a the our or -- hit I in loan it industry? get is issue our massive conservative us credit Do more quality everyone The of side lot hit

see I it So thing. big a don't as

strategy it in book think I'm as general, I -- our would it's our I the where concerned book feel talking. for we're really at. overblown, But thank you I about and maybe other is as think not great be strong, is about people strong, But and our servicing question.

from Eric line the Hagen of question BTIG. next comes with Your

well. doing Hope you're

the MSR -- are are sales follow-up a MSR guys manage portfolio, comfortable I think about consider we maybe and you level size are thinking you portfolio? how what you to of that for the in that the the saw too? How don't you composition to quarter, any of the that think be sustainable on a but MSR. about I guys thinking

don't just stays I if at tell Thanks question. answer always worse think minus is I we of now. big And to sales sales, XX% appreciate it's be, a going assume But actually quarter. how billion. lot, where our be than I I people book trying $XXX I and a with in do around figure you're the to would MSR MSR if even originating you, basically going you, we're we or Eric. I basically MSR -- They're tell -- plus it's to lot sales I think volume. out of right the XX% do what to book to think so the what MSR

So sales, grow if maybe. good do we it go XX%, XX%. billion do a target. any basically, think don't if $XXX we could XX%, will sales, I it XX%, seems bunch a But down of like But

I I kind off we're let's going of billion. at think $XXX could looking that's And $XXX we're forward. slightly. be it it But at billion, quite call what

-- at pretty look as it's I So with consistent it number. been that

there. not Our liquidity that MSRs the need selling is strong right is so for now

As us and see, heck a our a and managing you critical a job does ours, position, cash can that. on is the team Andrew along focus that with Blake of which of for

And at so in position. liquidity great numbers, is our looking those a

sell need MSR. So to don't any we

grow. So could our MSR book

by by if there, long wants offer as to and we're as right by the doing someone out However, our price, brokers do shareholders. us opportunistic our it business a things and good our will we we're and

detail. many the how Can you quarter you was? say was in UPB the of MSRs That's that sold great

servicing. selling doesn't the excess because don't I the sometimes really Because UPB, that not you're you're not it number it. the know exact so clean represent It's selling

of markets you therefore, sold a that it while actually capital hold any And I the it's really UPB excess, because which is I think so not the if way. transaction, still servicing

told we if but about that, So we how of doesn't the million, kind -- $XXX work think it. did exact That's say I brought have out. that in I math billion don't I $XX you'd you

that's as, to book that not apples. just it in the billion or you look hey, overall at and $XXX be probably it's apples number. plus why XX%, got pretty XX%, So to And consistent will MSR minus

mitigate delivery? you pipeline, managing origination the about One holding thinking the from pipeline the doing really How you're And warehouse? anything That's to loans maybe guess, risk from hedging helpful. on yes. the perspective higher interest and more. before both guys are the rate expense I of interest Yes,

so mean, don't We I of day. our hedge pipeline. Yes. on pipeline any any we every our take risk

years and for constant years a been and years. that's So

we try there's the and And be world. capital to have we're markets really when that. we amazing so hedging there. And and trying great an in always risk about in to doing you're team capital obviously, things handle feel risk-free what markets But

the So that's question, kind still about risk. you're if I'm sorry, line? that of your how of think the on I second part Eric,

just doing the expense NIM guys -- of warehouse that the are interest and there. anything on higher Yes, holding loans to from you're mitigating earning kind you mitigate

Yes.

it's So I expense, I market. actually see mean, hard to the it, low to relative pretty the it's interest but know

However, we have debt.

interest looking do excess and stuff And so And But opportunity there. and includes number much drive liquidity, that to there take we'll some because have self-warehousing doing so that so we're just lot that our the that continue of with and expense cash We're that debt, sitting there. a to at down. we it's it. of just sitting of advantage

So do And do of team and use and Blake Kolo we Andrew and great team managing his a it? that. his job how

it's the not it's we the not loans, So managing from remember, that the that expense our really a just interest great because, have from fact we the shows I doing there expense our servicing, in and have interest -- debt warehouse servicing we're out that number think our positive income, from job a versus interest there.

Credit from [Operator line of Instructions] the next with Suisse. Your comes Harter Doug question

expense detail like could looked meaningful it just what as you by a quarter, This to was some that. amount. drove the hoping G&A fell I give

laying his comment of anyone been here we give Everyone job, to again, G&A is lot he a heck anyone Well, our actually in I thoughts of a of so I'm once you for "Oh, people. make hiring. a But manage. not does managing CFO, Mat's we're Of There's a is second we've just things Doug, in think off." can any course, Andrew, addition. And not and him the thinks off. I'll a let this every of years. kind the -- laying everyone time, comment not wants expense reality,

But actually And to negotiating some the A through the understand likes things deals. first on, And but manage of the lot reality we've it's people, A a been of business is in second, the those manage not of to which dollar, times times it's our costs, T, lot spending. we're we to we vendors. our the talk about. everything everyone it's new last of job see come that throughout not you'll quarter. done the and year, And year great quarter in that. we've the working third fourth just

And look so more this at did is is -- significantly at Doug, And last look more gain sale. core the on We it I to operating last more first important way year's income. than first thing, year's money quarter, quarter the we volume, most year's made quarter. first

we're coming well, these positive through the that obviously, last all question. as are managing X, getting I details said a the it and So would quarters business over in I've way, very been X

in throw if So maybe I to comments have hit. didn't any don't you know Andrew, that I

sequential the think I same. year. -- On basis, comments Mat's increase a down last well, covered relatively a our reserve down QX little in remain to repurchase year-over-year Mat. it's bit, it partially, slight flat. But a you think of I And on a it's basis, was there

Your Piper Sandler. line next the of Barker from question comes with Kevin

guide to margins. guys have This questions to Kevin is Barker. Brad Capuzzi continue you on my Most higher see of stable to nice been production, answered. It's for

do expenses guys forward? How you Just view following G&A coming going Doug's up on with down. question

it, lot up, going guess look expenses there right? that on go volume my how of depending to you And at is I are variable. are the Well, a perspective, so

going of So some numbers hiring. you, -- those up. we're Obviously, to to continue I go we're will just manage told

and will focus those But of were profitable. tough, great, month. first are fourth some earnings thing Because December extremely only less quarter hardest markets. we're Core was of ended on overall, I the the the on And in on, expenses but one the a expenses quarter we in not slow up. profitable. So was go more especially

into And board. first so quarter across that really bleeds the the

-- and managing tied save besides -- Do expenses and have coming a it. expenses? you to about Yes. dollar not vendors will are jump I good business of But outside? I to we anything I -- pick things up the not And feel aren't sacrifice more we guide really have so Are partnerships out that that to over trying dollars pennies. Yes. I'm that

going And in we people, strategies, to so and our do that. And in in business I'm make to continue to we're way. business run if going sure technology make investments going to right I'm the

So I spend little of expenses time on making a very focused we're money. while lot

of that were the why talked I how there, do brokers We'll UWM focus the I think you'll continue roll. UWM you LIVE!, grow, what's the that's some we about but When already upside. the the in on to would their do of broker and What you and And help innovation quarter. great as of LIVE! I going call grows. to. guided that, second happening. And the grow But to revenue have seen don't channel, camaraderie, see it's quarter, have top our the culture, I is the a you brokers business. the drive opportunity, UWM on That's And if I at at beginning think the were

never But because is doing first up not and my And expenses as not X pennies if and will things job who the X who about, I'm dollars are then of so it's -- I'm picking be. important. or we pennies, talk we jumping a that's I CEO over

Michael Your from the of Kaye final question line with Wells Fargo. comes

QX, still your guiding on to to of quarter. XX guidance end The for point XXX margin that you're of points But basis high last the basis towards QX XX gain was original sale range.

conservatism season? margin factors, for QX purchase pricing in have on and So more just control or track that in program extra provide is of good the a your that sale as like maybe spring high end you own of the the momentum trying QX end of in question record gain up other guidance? Or brokers is, why on more QX maybe not are taking of to bottom the it Is support coming this toward gain guidance? the more top on you price sale

We I just I conservative. quarters. our is what it I change basis. it's guidance, we we're I also down. now, products paying come different XX for there's always It's on I'm if way we daily know don't with margins, always, at always numbers But and The can up been say look price different quarters like have. I Margins how think XX different opportunities. straight the believe, but you Yes. our control guiding a in at can We will change, be. things dividend

different on government, And more so more those if conventional, more margins are jumbo, different you sizes. do loan

sure the good to a I to $XX if -- that, a points. XXX higher Like $XX gave we the I'd thing I be to why we part on think end low it's the the Could going number. to middle that's -- the different that That's be And assume could is felt billion billion, little guide same in XX middle really be the But so would or basis make on I we'd lower it, a confident lower with the of -- be that's or number. high? it guide of number. end? XX I end the a of in

a of many opportunity If basis. focused on maybe I'm on However, officers margins If more on lot We for I'm things volume. it honestly, focused But We and to running Michael, opportunity in And brokers that mortgage an margins, advantage bit, success. broker's can of want reality do and exactly we that I on those to take an more running down business bring little to do. you is we more the it. I'll want business ways. that not of a we'll we're see volume like we'll a brokers, do go business. for a day-to-day the know see do guidance. the the me, do grow loan I There's little channel. our their help less to

saw things As you in that's things also here, media. training, there's learn, Michael, UWM them the were to do coaching, on helping But available. the on social opportunity There's LIVE!, price. the you also

so there's these all And doing. things we're

XXX. of this way call, industry, will said guess, saying, confident confident to be very I the the XX feel I to a And billion, mortgage the as I feel XX And billion so, and between in of beginning $XX basis wholesale trough at of XXX $XX long points. I

I I'm last think that year. and I said saying again it this year

mortgage to way, trough, if it up will bit little to And time then goes we're estimate that in if as fit. best spoken see But we guidance to to what it those billion. more. that's we XX I'll of $XX the the sure I'm working the market on make up move plan every if do. changes billion these And like you single it point, $XX extremely hard deliver targets I we this Now going I comes I've we a hit and -- have a at out -- move my on calls. we're to tell continuing to deliver, XXX Or

points from of you're would that to towards maybe end? what more? be like bottom trying just the why of saying towards for I'm go low So basis it would end to more the pricing XX you you programs guidance? take or So that mix you'll it's delta, push understand

lot it's not quarter, we -- it XX, at it There's could XX to there's timing next pushed movements. be again, sale a once mean, or coming a things because maybe of right? things be it vary. quarter, loans. make up range to XX There's have happen things of sell there's give a in. market of And There's that -- numbers different right? made I this timing clean. -- There's different that of XX it There's lot of There's gain that have that on lot could there's I as could a things. issues that Yes. derivatives, when hedges. is

piece more than goes It's hey, through. it on and put like, complex paper a a lot just just you number a

bit want give a so little a I of range you. for to And

deliver you although Michael, I be appreciate to to of XXX, to lower straight And confident once And and for to $XX I really so XX for to love narrow I'm that be can XX to I in or of going billion and feel I quarter again the try what so the higher you XXth not it once the the to told But end view range, strong the end you, the billion, $XX about. to able that. you. deliver will do I again I'll XXX, question.

question from George. a Bose And final you have follow-up

This is Smyth actually on Bose. Mike for

the I LIVE!, any with was some jumbo with just kind banks. but set of could other stuff the on of in that of products wondering hit you going or UWM on opportunity on You kind matter if for touch just the

Yes. Thanks for the question. Appreciate it.

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helpful. That's Great.

I question. I for you Thank And question, Yes. believe. the know that was the last

came I community. broker word, who that better say so to team see, culture I that's and everyone LIVE! that UWM community. growing and all to on the calls. your call, understand everyone We're about LIVE, you appreciate really want a was our jumps UWM thank saw our and out We this -- I The a I your it. broker And to questions, if at on excessively thoughts. broker and to the lot just community exceedingly, you of is excited appreciate appreciate these of you

that that and brokers hopefully, guys have and passion And have. we you feel so the energy

to after Have And we're going keep guys going I'm quarter appreciate I'll to you available, day. anything fantastic talking and We and And our team. quarter. heck of have you be share available, the QX we're to so a Blake's in winning you. if is be together. a you guys excited to a and between, with Andrew gals.

This concludes today's call. conference

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