UWM (UWMC) 7 Nov 242024 Q3 Earnings call transcript

Good morning. My name is Christina, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the UWM Holdings Corporation Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. Blake Kolo, you may begin your conference.

Good morning. Chief and Kolo, Relations. of Blake is Business Head Officer Investor This you and Holding XXXX today, joining Corporation's to Call. Thank us Quarter welcome for the Third Earnings UWM

this would remind start, statements. like we includes forward-looking I everyone Before that conference call to

factors refer For please actual results forward-looking the this morning. earnings release may to more that cause materially differ information from issued about to statements, that we

will include metrics. today non-GAAP also commentary Our financial

for as GAAP the non-GAAP our metrics the United and financial over to non-GAAP and Ishbia, Mortgage. the earnings will today metrics with to results, For issued information on and Chairman call Wholesale SEC. I CEO the reported reconciliations and turn refer our please earlier between UWM the of the Corporation Matt now release as filings well Holdings

us thank Thanks, you, joining for everyone, today. and Blake,

for of in couple investment the been share clear: that cutting growing past just Over channel the with tack industry and in can full Today, years, purchase to staff by both. say while investing next very we are and ] confidence I of market main have [ broker achieved preparing refi the boom the UWM others dominating in survive. goals our X and

growth and share is undisputed. purchase dominance Our

since market has purchase have we our grown fact, In purchase share, historically, grown XXXX. about share whenever XXX% And market have we kept it.

So about positioning we great really feel there. our

years to and lender been what future, the not business caught teams to key and but we for able purchase years to be decade I done for X now, have we sports #X The lender that the a the materialized, seen has along preparing flat-footed. in has with consecutive winning. top the top of team others in X fully a on to lender capitalize were couldn't a the now. have best while for and the refi it it preview Preparation win in way boom and lead here. Now instantly, present the a unanimous that's for while find prouder is wholesale were

industry, where focus We really the and the of we're for the years are ahead. are mortgage proud on dominating stand and we excited

let's We and which above closed of quarter quarter. our production, in billion well total is Now years biggest our the about with X talk third $XX.X guidance.

fully production which another we succeed purchase -- the a $XX clear in is when to in total reflects this will that in dominant market production. Notably, market returns billion with years of billion refis, a refi we over biggest Importantly, closed that primarily quarter our returns, purchase $XX.X as also couple well. in quarter refi indicator our and

margin gain our you also MSRs, as grow well Our know, we our was of refis is value almost come, inclusive generated tied our will decline net with and XXX guidance, interest basis fair which to ahead changes business. of of when of indication volume. We income which, margin in points, $XX million is million, our of with rates another how operate nothing to has $XXX do along

by to of that technologies a the helps and qualify approval to continues saw MSR adoption brokers of to quarter. money. TRAC+ initial the with the the have and is technology. technology brokers great It's XX of increased. change in strength and less, hit course, minutes So ChatUWM, a unheard technology profitable that allowing quarter in speaks our gain continues like BOLT usage third be borrowers tool standards our traction. save and in tools pleased really big PA+ AI-powered and to many with to also our of business. We're that of an of consumers' we industry

business that helping and we the which business with and did not XXXX technologies exist 'XX, utilized just time. and is being the are more, the efficiency more tools brokers as and and in our to at as these technology these of win. Remember, many did brokers So used much add

to This third increased off a the great the winning Matchup find in more see continues save helping traffic. a broker to and people great our effort license to money now broker. and for in help mortgage our a start, Mortgage now and channel, more to latest to to Andrew was quarter go huge come. I'll can been to there. In broker new what's we're whole community prepared UWM and BrokerX, CFO. are success things grow and continue being continuing has which brokers loan officers. turn while Americans is a train the over Hubacker, see Additionally, position so far, announced

Thank you, Matt.

points in of the XXXX. billion increase quarter momentum income the from interest the gain production rates. Total volume and in the XX% period is EBITDA and in and Year-to-date, of impact the we net year-to-date on last increased MSR profitable despite approximate operationally same year. basis remained market quarter the reported decline adjusted $XXX.X as third from for year-to-date basis to points Our XXX to year continued an values XX for basis margin positive GAAP an

have And We well volume think the increases processes for continued these us which and we technology, in making these investments. the gain margin operational and in while to invest allowed to next people, us profitability have prepare significantly maintain market cycle.

be our additional a cash in believe that to capital the most and on positioned third and at There liquidity and billion. Total capitalize lines opportunities. future And than MSR at total proceeds of sales including balance half. more available and cash the to billion of only end $XXX on cash sheet accessible an our the billion, we credit. we MSR our approximately $XXX the borrowing to sales portfolio executed the As current $X.X and with few million quarter approximated outstanding over first net equity, $X.X and position, capacity. of front-loaded were sufficient with of ratios leverage third approximated the our year excess of continue quarter, Overall, million were with from MSR ended environment. to Year-to-date, liquidity we total remain the we for $XXX during sales ended levels market but MSR well quarter, acceptable liquidity QX

Matt to over turn Chairman, Ishbia, now will CEO, remarks. and our President back closing I things for Okay.

close with a many channel since we in the that share year I'll thousands save And to loan But we market through of in achieved the provide. part this for XXXX, is make broker XXXX. have highest due realizing officers its Andrew. and outside consumers, mention to UWM that the reports it's service amazing and company differentiator brokers of left CFO, few The direct a points. the major situations cheaper consumers consumers. the because I Thanks, also are of the dollars industry day. One consumers of over want my the for Forrester. best passing easier at are faster, and other of process Mortgage place the and none Tim is our since has day

but in differentiator consistency is continuity, industries in the This higher all major we've mortgage a most at team. in executive have We have industry grown and and team. turnover leadership, a competitors of as of big ends this our as built together definitely the business my

which market that. break beyond really to quarters, about track capable $XX we're about point in lower rates since higher, XX%, win. existing is billion rates a the It strength lot the is today. rates to all-time grow what with is of Another does, is share. home we'll of Think we'll share go makes stay call: see focus production and to production, than our rebounds the we'll excited continue making continue full we're the delivered on more more XXXX channel's the higher almost of channel reiterate purchase and nearly lower, #X, year to through the me Yet and record. be If regardless last But the is purchase on I means of inventory. I'll sales And succeed. track X we've lowest where money what on the year if and when something purchase XXXX. broker XXXX market our make to purchase of double it said business. broker on which

really all said term and the to have and built for able long I As we times, ready many we're are cycles. embrace

in I I the the about the guidance, third talk want to Before quarter. market talk about

see look quarter, of but before, why back didn't it. we're X- number like can a and get on post it a weeks. big wherever that's is our refi to X-week a a goes a X.XX%, and there, floated would XX-year. how it to and what margin we up refi it's massive, on -- maintain And to look longer-term test much like we've able do levels said with quarter. Basically, production we the now couple what and we'll have key how a such would it the as I performance it and in our now, got right stress As to see below X.XX%, massive market window the quite that, this In for X.XX% I level If opportunity. X.XX%

are cuts future the things understand the because where is happen, and price laid will strong be we're business where and so X% from stock great glimpse, prepared for only just which markets the quarter to you where is. pretty now glimpse, boom. team. pay sale. Think a X%, a on but not why case looks our at. a float. XX-year probably We've little I to and great of about going at. now the So perspective about really great gain what we Fed for time the We've a an consistently of origination that's the dividend, feel the on We've great increased how and just moment. proven that little our that UWM and we're saw like, we for It's third the across about with refi our and stock We out we the the part we're where business seen board feel be a based the all was And a

to Turning guidance.

We to to feel want and and XXX basis confident to I thank shareholders, to that $XX And be basically great $XX I and and to here win expect together billion and production margin I team remain at between will profitability between our quarter to UWM. XX clients, see going we'll our do members, continue our things. we're continue billion, really points, gain strengthening. third continue and market

turn and we'll over it there. let's go Q&A, from to Now

[Operator from of Sommers the of Derek Your Instructions] question first line comes Jefferies.

is related MSR? In interest the other to derivatives the EBITDA rate gain hedging bridge, line item on the

our MSRs. Derek. the WACC last we the business. The a be how of don't a that obviously, stuff couple a in all lot for our look at not everything. MSRs -- look higher on years about out to rate something We've hedge a different gone We for lot of way interest we the really question, selling turned sell is derivative good Thanks at we We over it's as has things we MSRs. through -- do of Yes. positive and talked of lot we our believe time. very No,

be negative. and ways of it'll sometimes analyzing addressing market. market, positive, the the We look the Sometimes market at be it'll different understanding

interest And at is so I we but we don't when CFO, We when rate when don't don't with that's obviously our MSRs make on our opposite look a But do based the hedge. some that we there a decision we really myself sometimes run we business. risk on it out committee, trends how that, that put MSRs, our hedge do derivative. as and

the Okay. in takes kind margins Great. And quarter-over-quarter? puts then and the what it in of driving were terms gain-on-sale higher of quarter,

will about like thing, where years, volume become became I we And been glimpse little the refis thing. up a a margins up. was talked got where for refis said, close as saying go a XX-year X to will our I've Well, or the of, our Yes. you when whatever, go weeks where

on of so probably and XX-year that, have of I was. And the of towards we where We got down. would it. that this range took last a little our guided where been quarter we kind then based glimpse in it more dropped quarter And advantage

took advantage well. of all Our did We brokers very it.

volume. propped gain-on-sale along because the And so that the up of margin with got

up the So you been that will into see future. or just all below can our X% volume on XX-year will the and the sale we've down XX, of our longer. XX next I X, years. think it's as believe a We kind And great X.XX% for go be over saying and below gain glimpse potentially months

from George Bose of question line the KBW. comes next Your of

fourth to as quarter sale. Can wanted up rates gain talk with with and Just you about backup on trends this in just seasonality follow -- you're in the well? the now the on seeing

Yes.

I've as to the as PA+ we see products top right September I that that lot I But bottom on make of and in over and -- rates on that where an give I TRAC+ more the move the years, XXX. guided drops market the different August based want think the it. however you ancillary -- these think for And to to line that, now once a the guided last we was the right that up bit question. we and right? Obviously way kind rates and adding us to of on levels today. obviously, we line, the the well. about. opportunity market about or and area, at and to little mentioned early XX-year things it more other again, obviously, right September, August thanks to understanding talked you've dropped have So where and versus of is now, when little where And is of couple margin. Also, I moved are early looked and seen Fed XX guided margin rates it probably So a a some

and we moves, rallying then market's how So this that we'll adjust. little the morning, a see

try the was and what on not. other the of guys, and the And and right -- and margin every X.XX%, beginning see for go where where give to go XX-year to It can so said to I change will I I much at the understand will as you margins accuracy area second. It go XX-year to handle part speak And information can I nice guys quickly. the that's you move. it to gain-on-sale volume are time places to knowledge you will kind X.XX%, to we're prepared very the

on And company. that's for been I we Double extreme, Like great. now, realistic. That's a be, potentially, to stock, an a we've And like the not great price our of to very great, about might right? low said building based like but right be in honest. money, doubling business making the doing completely pays double the double what dividend so company, to be And right? we're position, in stock can we're literally, our of is. whatever our ready X%, business, is X%, it control prepared be might The how it we're we're

So $XX And rates have in been. when and $XX it's billion away the like billion, purchase in a market plug quarters do huge we'll to opportunity $XX billion, the meantime, dominate we drop.

products. mentioned on going? ancillary Can traction then you great. just That's actually, is just one TRAC+. and those And products the on the you TRAC talk How --

It's Those going well. products well. are going

get adoption you our of anything, like to clients. Just got

it. you sure continue to the highest got level. then And got execute You to at make you to build

it's people planned. were a wanted and So It's up not boom, out, that make help We going consumers do products to to ready how we help going UWM. money, so save difference, gain-on-sale sure then to and roll those prior that differentiate grow? just and make to but themselves with to as refi it the they are. ratchet is to be brokers want work it way huge another And

a And it's so win-win-win.

of Your BTIG. Eric next from question comes line the Hagen from

kind considerations from the say Just looking reflection that's would which Are that cash to the also any reflected earnings? might selling there cash earnings good is the relative EBITDA you that that's flow cash And your affect of generated number? MSRs EBITDA, adjusted in of figure? adjusted at a the

to if it Yes. Eric. just on tie I in really and Andrew, way, it the -- of it whether not capitalization cash different reflection general, that's comment? you that keep at really flow, on but not you I MSRs, do how to -- to want it's doesn't don't the with a it's don't of But flow. look MSRs Andrew, it, you based cash want comment

think No, right. I Yes. that's

sales from capitalization cash of closer combination gets of and that. capitalization flow sales MSRs, a metric. think more you not But I MSRs, excluded of of Just a to is so the of MSRs

Okay.

should the these more does margin investors Or one forward not mean, around room guidance focus any the expansion on Maybe the I margins. rate something think you. got really incorporate do moves I over for And higher rates? that these you latest on? at weeks? the is think margin last going of there's I couple that

market XX expansion as there opportunity. would we soon market guidance. Based last saw, market where a margin, the and be stayed moves But in XXX confident second, bit, don't whatever little to that, I to to have that to higher on you that the a X.XX%, guided a as right? if we backed this this up X.XX%, for right if well guided Well, definitely the of XX know. I'd really quarter, guiding basis feel X.XX%, we -- room the The it advantage is was, only answering take on and where put So your is as market over points where I the XXX when margin backed XXX time, guidance, that. question. have I bit that's up, has to the quite not it market XX-year up it is right based and is moves,

next Jeff comes of line Morgan from Your the from Stanley. Adelson question

a really for applications far MBA we the since the in from about nice this quarter, of down the end just down for refi seen fade refi. thus index sort guess, had strength You saw this and we've quarter of I it's end quarter. the quarter quarter XX% -- last at with showing refi the

Just the $XX saw curious, kind at much just the And Maybe of just versus quarter far like where the the the lock does kind sort the the rate-lock how of follow-through $XX through to what and end is seeing embed of rates mortgage this midpoint quarter. of sitting so guide of of you billion XX-year quarter? are last of last today? volume in you're closing talk rate billion this

Yes.

look at pipeline. an volume business, our of look condition So approval how submissions, do our our look registrations, look our I I flow imports, I don't of really look at we at at lock the business. indicator I rate at as I

than at, that aspects a UWM. XX run I about days. A and September detail not other the that and them XX, in lot will look thing our rate XX, UWM other That's get locks business different close their is November, different. of obviously a people in there's business. But we're is of which So closes lot people them other lot from of December.

and that $XX.X you've down refi from quarter. a we usually was So down, so confident November and market to a October feel Yes, off be do pointed holidays billion $XX got times, as the all do. and the XXth slowed The with said, of things being still lot December take between month. purchase out. and September, lot the locks XX-business-day to has fourth of time $XX in obviously the billion? some you that months shorter do pop on slows are based billion can we But in obviously clear. And people and -- a market beyond. with December brokers -- of we world now

this And so able I hit and to quarter confident years, And have the we're our we'll capitalize on think the refi was on are direction, I on it we've that $XX and between on to I $XX like that dominate cognizant will talking we feel market. part very between as quickly. prepared purchase about as billion of best we it very and been we market billion that. comes market for as XXX. And that and ready soon the XX just to show, and capitalize was

X.XX% or went posted. margins to But and to you'd of election, in basically see higher an And XX-year see you'll been days couple what XX so after if X.XX%, minutes different to if dropped last or of higher where kind than I it goes volume. hour, you, I then fourth as told quarter just at the a the in it's

We'll be billion, hit for dominant hopefully, and on purchases, where So and feel as at. $XX refis good well. about a on I $XX prepared to XXXX billion we're

but Cash-Out it's on seeing new weeks, there. product? update curious of sort you're been the uptake any seeing any I you're XX on know only the sort just reads of there's just And if X early

balance something out, -- nothing It's go clients. a a obviously, rolled rates that's Yes. great done up, with I and since and -- of saw you The but program, our be it but have see lower. of been obviously, us So exclusive we to saying how the issue, together, when we right? understand there's much rates differentiating a the are it expect little when tenure tie what the will keep how and XX-year, that do rates when versus rates

expect. not believe. great. will differentiator, been extremely It's it's you'd So it be refi definitely but volume high a market, In I as it's high a as volume,

comes Barclays. of next the from from Your line Ma Terry question

a preparing much in just and you're for upside investing ahead, you mentioned lower and about respect term, to to you've about for inning you Maybe the then more share to what maybe longer X- So test and rates can refi stress investments pointed get. those X-week quarter. actually with while toward how this talk

Yes.

where business. say been need of I this We So want we're -- feel great mean wonderful. a guess We're but grow don't it, prepared. double probably We significantly about at. don't double, to go investments I -- bunch I our hire it's not exaggerate people have to to quickly. I so very

So a hiring, enhancements, training, handle our now coaching. our technology lot we volume our with can right with with more with our

and tomorrow. We ready to are today, go right, prepared and

We're on that quickly right our our and significantly grow. And now. and but in the prepared broker continue is, and margins to it so operations. that profitable growing volume I prepared they're today, where at job the next when is show And too do on And dividend reward beginning, business And that And the why are. exactly we'll be brokers our don't have shareholders I build. on market, then we be XXXX. will technology. year. With be can how -- on the purchase. that's profitability, And our pay great results I time much and don't we in I the We're scale said, and of you'll and We're the with control said rates, dominate see prepared stay efficiencies. them we my company We is I prepared the come, be staffing purchase And our part CEO, be that's being think interest America, my as to one, what we prepared to most when focused will they and as our think very which happens, prepared. at, can it's we channel support dominate spend team that and they because scale. I'll when growing so

good on basis prepared, ever great, dominate we're that feel continue day-to-day to we're we and and a we've So as until just the as now happens. watching been, market

it. And to plans your you mentioned were your Got talk maybe the and float for able I future? you the about think remarks prepared in that increasing in float. the Can increase you that then just

Well, it's to been to a what it. And will do continue year. more common more theme from there my and at any more look done investors creative not this the now, is do float out at float how to looking that. Right we've that market, you different do get we we there, get can ways I'm to out

because at matters. will always we look float ways However,

invest And down, base which that's to in and get and take company years out to to can investor high the it things. the in they so price been something continue do advantage and stock our the told our that's there from of I've is, float there pay other if for our holding more so go best our we all continue we'll of hands dividend

results, those was ago. fourth months float is right that's ways focus what are to you've than quarter, now, -- I But it. So in and some or it of certain that different the and X there help. materially hopefully, the excuse do third to the that. looking we'll me. look on opportunistic always same the at to we But expand I'm at quarter seen continue time, at things And won't in

from Sandler. Instructions] [Operator question line the next of Your from Brad Piper Capuzzi comes

the been of channel Obviously, has to you give share, and an Can a has broker if channel grow Some any wondering hold dynamics UWM you the strong channel? expect out of but be within was pricing the us to increased have and rational opportunities the competition. peers seeing on just if update talking broker in you're recently. within your playing market continued

saying do. Yes. for when fun years. they about my No, cute been what They've to wholesale that can it's always competitors and and talk like

only their the You UWM say. and truth earnings brokers should dominate and channel the care the the little we back when and the the brokers the their go brokers. team. And their want all wins win, to only win. about the calls going public they brokers wholesale we to to invest because brokers. only and things in We we're cute win But a because they is and brokers We

margins, so that. enjoy lead control grow zero They the concern build follow don't. that. And and at our will business. we'll same and they I about continue And the our to time,

And and make the But them. invest right we're that's and you brokers. the because in dominate they want because have good to something I where but call so saying, we what is channel, best, feel to we guys feel most. their make it's truth we're not great at. to we pay don't on attention now, care the about they're We the say really earnings to themselves about care

help brokers win. the will We

the brokers win, helped and that. know have We brokers

care brokers And the so is win. about helping all I

couple and and over for our UWM succeed grow, years. when is they Our help well, them does channel brokers -- and dominate, of way last pretty the dominate. it's focus a And good succeed success been help the as

then for question the me. last just And

of being sales year more a you beginning What terms front-loaded. few expectations quarter this In MSRs, mentioned of MSR with going the is the sales? forward your with

Yes. business feel great Once to sell really business. we'll want like our any have at don't And MSRs and we'll needs it high if in us sell the to do, we MSRs. at they the same the feel which people again we time, And at pay about some and looking of look cash again, opportunistic, multiples, certain situations.

about We meet committee, I decisions. don't. meet our we we make producing with MSRs with of feel most that. at manage obviously risk team, volume still we look my at. We're and high we're So where people a We where that, really executive good

these lot by And a -- so of new wanted are MSR people that originations buyers. are

for big target that. obviously so And we're a

analyze to it business, week-to-week, we we'll partners, that for on basis. it at look have opportunistically and at best call think we realistically, a look the the everything, But investors, So to continue is I that. our do requirement let's and and day-to-day or more whatever month-to-month no MSRs. that a We sell

from last the UBS. from your Doug comes line And Harter of question

Matt, in purchase refi? kind Is gain those gain volumes, the achieved? that could gain? you on when whether of technology opportunity capacity you kind and talk refi or that about the allows have of higher Or between that they're higher and a a it you increase to kind seize and difference volumes purchase of your is

that I being but I is about the but more the tied on to are products, bit is the -- they're actually to reality handle capacity. able I -- I little a think drop, don't refis mean, ancillary Yes. rates when price-sensitive, gain tied really think the people I to people it's sale fast it a and are $XX borrower talked And think want savings it is there's efficiently. And at at that. now. I They the loans look so a lot a focused not month, to month is saving on volume, a close $XX versus borrowers their to want get look way. when of much times,

and to And so recognize brokers fast loans they want close and efficiently. our that,

back. not go for on sale the whole gain up just when will come UWM, industry, So refis

industry, into gain -- the as versus if on go but for price-competitive they conclusion and draw and margins People scale And in XX-year ability definitely on will the their definitely up. more and to people And much is afford their -- on excited for when execute. preparation $XXX you're UWM, can our based the versus $XXX. price-sensitive just you really XX-year, $XX go it's the depending the preparation a rates X.XX% $XXX isn't -- or so the are not everyone down They're their But it based Xs, And and X% XX-year go people will how probably up. on because $XX when me, up excuse close right? But $XX the simply can't to versus at or XX-year versus goes or higher XX-year's versus little the pretty rate potentially save as on X%, that. $XXX, sale. house price-sensitive and saving and

just not an that's And thing, so UWM that's -- I thing. industry that's think not a

and down higher this X.XX%, volumes. see X.XX%, have XX-year will And of the everyone margins in goes so my when industry, all competitors, higher to you'll

our continue do where very great in it's thing So the to positive we're a at. industry. In meantime, for we'll

so additional It from an Jay And of into Financial. the your be Philly will come Jordan have question. last we did queue, caller this comes

had the do stayed And in guide on that bit they been? late a the had were to where guidance would fourth margin little that rates mentioned rates lower to were You have up quarter September, mid- think where stayed margins. prepared you you

the Yes. for question. Thanks

and you and would obviously, saw went what I have at understand the have margins we about I X, the or looked down, and down, would that margins if our So would range understand how thought would So know our don't XX-year it up definitely that that. been. have was analyzing where would have have it I market exactly stayed I the level wouldn't a -- X.XX%. levels. is that would maybe But seeing guided have in like been thought probably go right? have a not that's level, a definitely

up but lowered basis in points, go to but do it's go to up. I rates to so they hard think margins market expected we'd what expect XX-year have down, to worse. And got XX goes the I XX after September the would done back as it

where our So go understand when When the margins margins and more margins -- And but up. a will for will with investors. go return is up, down, our do volume better we our goes XX-year higher the today. market

continue will -- Our forward. going continue as dividend

we time said you great which know dividend partner was investors, So higher. as And I sale, lot prepared have UWM some my the much go changes, new the business. at there because tailwind. Obviously, a today some a President, getting like and remarks I volume a the the will analysts stock upside on of be at gain new a things end like and get to a of of price, you're will will it's benefit believe our the be positive of much great with you go believe higher, in really

patiently help with the and to on the company happens America. nice wait in continue we in prepared like XX-year the our we're But going -- But tailwind us. mortgage dominate time, while feel there's brokers the grow, We So build to rates. to continue what here and great. meantime, the purchase, to the feel business most same see a behind sit we'll at be

number well spreads impact mortgage to treasuries the as that's widened that because appreciably? Does

why that's obviously, obviously, just wider is you're XX-year all of using whether spread -- changes. course, Obviously, that's metric instincts perfect right? I'm That's it's as the not and the or it like metric. between -- So does, the to Yes, it. knowledge, that -- the understanding tied the the it because talks everyone about.

general, been And will And lot and I'm and activity, the the it's in a 'XX, and refi market of where on at gets more X.XX%, good think for below consumers. exciting. But our bellwether. the when it everyone a action talking gets indicator where And about, the margins UWM a for it's is based it's has brokers for a 'XX and for fun is us XX-year I you'll it understand bigger, As refi -- trend to and be the of bit investors in me. X.XX% smaller, little higher exciting pretty XX-year good 'XX. all at see less

going So board. to everyone the across is win

that last if thing, XX-year margin I were a months even from spreads ago, guess and they into where less treasuries gain-on-sale get is, my is XXXX? point mortgage you could highs, narrow historic their wider higher, to But even than stays to X could much the

fun Absolutely. That too. me, sounds like for

There's we the ready. you I we're variables. those I'm giving it, think and all happen. can good one, common really about things most and XX just feel

turn back the up Ishbia the call closing for to remarks. like Matt And I'd portion. that wrap to Q&A over will

we're fourth of thanks, really it. part And everyone, questions for you. UWM, excited excited Thank the quarter, We're and about for where Yes. for XXXX. excited we're being the and we're at

position. our to a We the with win we're company the to excited broker great in appreciate partners. support, is continue So and

together great, going you. are continue Thank we're a and doing win Our brokers team. to great great, doing as to we're Have day. a

Thank call. concludes conference you. today's This

You may now disconnect.